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6.00: Season 6

Discussion in 'Patch Notes' started by Jules, Jun 19, 2020.

  1. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    CTRL = temporarily see all health bars
    Home or POS1 = changes your health bar setting, so you can always see them
     
  2. A.Crowley

    A.Crowley Member

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    Not exactly original health bars, but I've found you can turn off the segmented health bars (and the endgame "coach") in Settings>Interface.
    I agree with you about preferring the original; at least we have the option.
     
  3. Wurakls

    Wurakls Member

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    Why is Elite Archer (145g unit) not able to solo hold lvl 1. That makes him look so weak. Back in classig LTD he solo holds 1 and nearly 2 :D
     
  4. Lisk

    Lisk Director Staff Member

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    v6.00a
    (ETA: today)

    Elite Archer/Trinity Archer

    - Attack Speed: 0.83 --> 0.87
    - Now smarter about being buffed by Dark Mage

    Lifebars
    - Disabled the HOME hotkey to toggle lifebar visibility (it was confusing to explain to people who didn't have a HOME key, and it also resulted in misclicks)
    - You can now adjust lifebar visibility via Options (to be consistent with other changeable options and make it less likely to misclick anything). By default, lifebars are visible for all units. You can change it to either Only Injured or None.
    - Added an option for Lifebar Size to make lifebars bigger if you want.

    Fixes
    - Fixed a bug where recommended value hitbox was too big, making it hard to ping mythium/workers
    - Fixed a bug where pinging recommended value bar/your value didn't ping your value
    - Fixed a bug where viewing another player's profile from the leaderboard or postgame showed "missingstr" in the top left
    - Game coach fixes & improvements
    - Takeover bot fixes (it accidentally didn't save/send with you in some cases)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2020
  5. Lisk

    Lisk Director Staff Member

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    v6.00b
    (ETA: today)

    - Fixed bugs with enemy tab scoreboard when building near the top of the lane
    - Reverted Sell rounding from Ceiling --> Round (so Looter will sell for 6g. Pawn Shop looter will unfortunately sell for 8g for now)
    - Reduced number of segments for Maccabeus healthbar (it looked glitchy)
     
  6. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    6.00c Patch Notes

    New: Rating Divisions
    - Rating Divisions (I, II, III, IV) are now displayed. The exception is Legend, which has no divisions. Divisions do not affect end-of-season rewards.

    Game Coach
    - Less likely to wrongly say you're overbuilt

    Elite Archer/Trinity Archer
    - Attack Speed: 0.87 --> 0.94

    We experimented with making Elite Archer a viable opening on its own, but it's not possible without making it 170 value (too high for a tier 4)

    Pro tip: Elite Archer and Trinity Archer are more effective when focusing fewer units, so they are strong against boss waves and when splitting the wave

    Improvements
    - You can now mouseover Power Score while in-game to see party status
    - Fixed profile Favorite Openings stat
    - Fixed profile search bar on some profiles
     
  7. AveragePlayer

    AveragePlayer Member

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    I really wanna like this game, but its just so god damn hard to. Been in and out since Alpha and I have never been so frustrated when I play this game as I have lately.

    Idk what has happened but armor values seem to be a joke and I'm tired of being punished for trying to play with the game's intended mechanics. The only viable strategy a majority of the time is to send a brute. Send as many brutes as you can. Pick which wave to send brutes, or save till 6 and send a bunch, and you win the game. Built plenty of swift armor units to counter brutes that inevitably get thrown at you? Who cares, they run over those too! Like how is that even fun at all? Why are brutes so incredibly strong AND they have a huge debuff AND they only give three less income than the ghoul?? Even the king will get killed because 3 or 4 god damn brutes are attacking it.

    And all it takes is that one or two early brutes to start the downward spiral because another frustrating problem with this game is the lack of possibility to any sort of comeback in this game. One leak and the opponents gets SO much gold from it that sending soon becomes pointless. Especially if you try and save and send according to their armor/attack type weaknesses, because as mentioned, that's all a joke. You lose if you pour your gold into value in order to stop leaking so much, and will still somehow leak all the time, and you also lose if you try to keep up with building workers. Lose-Lose either way. Every time.


    These games feel more one sided than ever before. The armor values and attack types feel completely worthless to try and counter. The scaling into late game is so ridiculous and it is so easy to get stuck behind early on because of one leak. And brutes are flooded with every game and making it a repetitive mess. People play all the time and just save till 6 and send mass brutes lmfao. They'll be leaking every round leading up but then SOMEHOW its just never enough and the king drops from 100 to zero. I guess even the players at below 1k rating are also pros lmfao.

    Gonna take another Hiatus from this game. Thought I'd share my thoughts this time cuz like i said, I WANT to like this game. Its just very very hard to.
     
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  8. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    Thanks for your feedback and sorry you had that experience. I agree it's hard to come back when you're significantly behind in Legion TD 2. This is somewhat intentional; otherwise, early game decisions wouldn't matter and games would last too long.

    If you have ideas for interesting comeback mechanics, let us know. We're really open to ideas.

    I don't think it's the case that one early leak decides the game. You said it yourself:
    ---

    In my experience, the thing that "snowballs" the game hardest is early game workers and income. A player that leaks, say, 15% will often be ahead of a player that clears but has fewer workers.

    I'm curious what other players think. Is the game too snowbally? Are early game workers/income overpowered? Should there be better comeback mechanics?

    ---

    Regarding Brutes, here are some tips:
    • Leaking is part of the game. If they send a Brute but only leak you 15%, you're probably ahead in the long run. Brute's 15 income being less than Fiend's 18 income doesn't sound like a lot, but it really adds up over time.
    • If they are going all-in on wave 6, send mercenaries for income or to leak them on waves 3-5 and upgrade King Attack on wave 6. Even if you and your teammate leak on wave 6 and take king damage, if you played properly, you're still likely ahead because of higher value and income.
     
  9. foliesseer

    foliesseer Member

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    Sounds like someone keeps losing to brutes :p

    I think you are completely wrong on the attack/defense types being useless...Yes, some units just don't give a fuck about the fact that they have negative typing for a wave and that's because they have great abilities.

    However this game is brute city and we I would be happy if we had 2 more 60-cost mercenaries to choose from for different scenarios. Brute is a great unit to keep people away from building "tall" (few towers, many upgrades) and I don't think it needs any nerfs. Just give us more options to choose from for different scenarios.
     
  10. AveragePlayer

    AveragePlayer Member

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    Couldn't agree more :)

    Just for fun I've been blindly sending brutes on wave 3 lately without even looking at my opponent's build lol. More often than not, a 50+ % leak...

    I hear what you guys are saying but i'm just not seeing it in action when I play. I wish I could upload my last game's replay lol. I leak on round 2 and am just undervalued for the rest of the game cause of it, despite building no more workers. I'm buffing the king the whole time to prepare for that round 6 save that they're doing, but it doesn't matter cause they sent a horde of brutes and the king goes from 100 to 0.

    Its like I've sunk so low that my ally is new and doesn't even know how to respond at all to the team build strat they're doing, and meanwhile other team is conducting a king sniping strategy that ends the game on round 6 lmao. How are these even being pulled off if i'm so low ranked now. Maybe because its too easy on account of the brute's incredible strength!!



    Things are obviously different than the way legion td plays on warcraft 3. But in my opinion, the wc3 version was easier to go on the defensive against huge saves or when the other team has the upper hand through upgrading the king. More specifically the HP upgrade and the stronger regeneration. It was a way to catch the leaks and get myself into the late game where there would be less space and we could still snag a win. I don't feel that way at all in this version. THe fact the king can wipe so easily, even with a fair amount of upgrades, is crazy to me. Your advice to beat players that save for sound 6 is to up the king's attack, but the damn OP brutes slow the king's attack -_- that only does so much.

    Again, the versions are clearly different and you guys obviously have your reasons why certain mechanics stayed and some didn't. Im sure theres an explaination to why the king upgrades changed the way they did. Obviously I would want to see a nerf to the brute above all things. less damage, less hp, less income, but something!! I know i'm low tiered as hell but the game should still be enjoyable for schmucks like myself.
     
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  11. Dimlhugion

    Dimlhugion Member

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    So, workers give you mythium at a rate of 1 every 10 seconds. You start with 20 myth and 2 workers, and workers start harvesting once wave 1 begins. The night phase for waves 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 all last 30 seconds. That's 150 seconds total, or 15 mythium "tics."

    The average eco start pushes to 5 workers by or during wave 2. To make the math easier we'll assume 5 workers right from the get-go, which is possible with some starts, but quite risky. Brutes cost 60 myth a piece, and you say they send "3 or 4" on wave 6. That's 180 to 240 myth, and they start with 20, so they'd need at least 160 gained from eco tics. They get 15 "free" tics from night phases, which equals 15 * 5 = 75 myth, so they'd need 160 - 75 = 85 more. 85 harvested mythium at 5 workers would take 85 / 5 = 17 * 10 = 170 seconds.

    170 / 4 = 42.5

    Put another way, each wave has to last an average of 42.5 seconds in order for them to send 3 Brutes on 6. And that's assuming they absolutely save every single myth possible.

    What this means is that you actually DON'T want them to leak prior to their all-in. Because leaks delay the wave, letting them get closer and closer to the required average game length. What you want to do is invest in King Upgrades and efficient clears. They can't send a bunch-o-brutes and end on 6 if they don't have the time to save up enough myth. Meanwhile, each King Upgrade gives you 6 * (N - 1) gold, where N = the wave the game ends on. So by spending 20 myth on King Regen during wave 1 night, assuming the game lasts until at least wave 6, you get 30 gold back. Use that extra 30 to bolster your defenses up until they send, and then use the cash to catch up your eco.

    If you are routinely leaking on waves 1 - 3 without enemy sends, that's an indication that you need to work on your openers. Take a look at Crowley's guides here on the forums, the dude has reliable beginner's openings for every legion. Once you shore up your defenses, the games literally won't stretch out long enough for them to critical mass send on 6. When their all-in fails, victory is all but ensured for you since your income is higher, your defenses are higher, and your eco will get caught up within 1 or 2 waves. From there it's just a matter of scouting them and dishing out a save-send of your own while they scramble to start actually playing the game.
     
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  12. AveragePlayer

    AveragePlayer Member

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    I just lost a game that played out like this. Basically did what you had said before I even read your post. Only I did send on wave 2 and made him leak about 44%. I guess that was part of my big F%#@ up that causes me to lose again? Because I should know by the end of wave 1 if he's saving for 6, and then determine if I should send?

    But even with my wave 2 send, no other leaks from either side till 6. So no, they didn't critically send the whopping 3 brutes it takes to kill the king, they only sent 2. And despite me using the natural and swift armor tanks, a little above value, and I have with plenty of fortified and magic dps all for this one wave...I get ran over anyways. Cause he sent two brutes. Both me and my mate leak at least 50% and the gold from both leaks plus the damage to the king (which is a lot) seems to clearly outweigh whatever income bonus we should have at this point.

    Now I'm somehow also undervalued for the rest of the game even though I've basically had to stop buying workers. Couldn't buy many workers before their big send, to prepare for their big send. Now I can't buy more workers due to the impact of their big send. Brutes are too god damn stronk.
     
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  13. Mick

    Mick Member

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    If I were you, I would join the LTD2 Discord and upload some screenshots of your builds in those kind of games and ask for some advice. There are a lot of really high Elo players there who want to help others a lot. I am saying this, because in top range, doing that kind of tactic (saving to 6) is really bad, so if you struggle with that, it might really help to get some practical tips on real life situations.
     
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  14. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    What's your in-game name? As Mick mentioned, many of us would be happy to look up your match history to see what happened.
     
  15. A.Crowley

    A.Crowley Member

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    I agree about attack/defence types, in fact, I think that's why Brutes and Hermits are so often frustrating to players.

    If a player is building defenders based on attack/defence types for the wave, how many enemy waves are nature defence? So they aren't building to kill brutes and hermits, which gives those sends a little advantage over most other sends, in addition to cool abilities (stun and aoe heal).

    So while I don't think brute and hermit are OP - it's part of the learning curve to prepare for them - I can see why it frustates AveragePlayer when he says he's "being punished for trying to play with the game's intended mechanics" when brutes make him leak.

    Also what can be frustrating about brutes I noticed, unlike most enemies you have to clear, is a lot of time it comes down to the luck of your units targeting brute or not. Early game that debuff attack is pretty mean, and brute also has a good amount of health.
     
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  16. AveragePlayer

    AveragePlayer Member

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    ^^^
    That's part of why I say he's too strong. Natural armor on top of a strong impact attack + attack slow. He should switch armor types with the ghoul -_- YOu get the most mullah from your mythium when you buy brutes

    MightyGorgon

    Heroes 3 fan :p
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020 at 7:41 PM
  17. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    @AveragePlayer Looks like you've been doing really well in your recent games (8-2 in your last 10 games). Nice job!

    I'll pick a game you lost to analyze and offer some tips.

    2020-06-30_14h05_57.png

    This is your build on wave 5. You stayed at 4 workers because your attacker was saving on you (didn't send any mythium on waves 1-5). You played that correctly. There's room for improvement, but no major mistakes.

    2020-06-30_14h04_50.png

    This is your build on wave 6 and where you made your first major mistakes. First, you pushed a worker on wave 6 while your attacker was saving on you. This meant you had 50 less fighter value to hold his wave 6 send. It's okay to occasionally take a risk and push an aggressive worker, but you shouldn't do so on the wave you anticipate a big send, which happened here.

    Second, you built a Wileshroom on 6, which isn't too bad because it's okay on wave 6 and strong on wave 7, but it's not the best unit to build. It's not optimal on wave 6 (due to its arcane defense), and you should be anticipating a wave 6 send, given that they have saved from wave 1 and given that Brutes on 6 is fairly meta in lower-rated games. Better would have been Golden Bucklers or Royal Guard (impact/natural) because they are strong against waves 6. The best would have been Infiltrators or upgrading one of your Infiltrators into an Orchid. Infiltrator/Orchid (magic/swift) is strong against wave 6 and, additionally, very strong against the incoming Brutes.

    Third, you didn't income send (send mercenaries before wave 5 ends) or upgrade the king on wave 6. Income sending would have given you extra gold to clear the wave. Upgrading King Attack would have made your king take less damage on wave 6.

    Even after these mistakes, the game was still far from over. You guys crushed them on wave 8, which equalized the game. However, on wave 9, you made the same mistakes as before (pushing workers when they were saving on you and building suboptimal units - you built a Canopie on wave 9 when a Golem would have been better).

    Hope that helps :)
     
  18. A.Crowley

    A.Crowley Member

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    It's really cool that you guys take the time to break down a game and give tips like that.

    You must hear a lot of grumbling along with legit concerns, so I just want to make sure you also hear:

    We appreciate all the effort and time you're putting into both adding new legions and balancing the many you already have.

    I know without a huge playerbase it's risky to add different modes, but that 2x Chaos was really neat, too. Looking forward to see what else you guys have up your sleeves
     
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  19. AveragePlayer

    AveragePlayer Member

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    Thanks for the tips. I remember that game, it was a good one to analyze. I over estimated the wileshroom/canopie. I thought i had enough impact resistant melee units for round 6 at the time since my value was also about equal.
     
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