Cornep's Guides: The Kraken

Discussion in 'Strategy Guides' started by Cornep, Dec 8, 2017.

  1. Cornep

    Cornep Moderator

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    FOREWORD--And Now It Begins


    Several weeks ago Cornep approached me about a guide he said he was making. His Magnum Opus, if you will, that would attempt to encapture the entirety of Legion TD 2 strategy. Having helped him with numerous other guides, and knowing how valuable his guides have proven to the community, I accepted the task, even while I groaned imagining the 10 page monster I would have to edit. I stopped going to college for a reason after all. When he finally told me he was finished, I opened up the document and my jaw dropped as a 40 page behemoth appeared before me. Yes. 40 Pages. We had to cut over half of this monster which we have lovingly dubbed “The Kraken”, in order to make it comprehensible, digestible, and to ensure that you would be able to finish at least a part of it in one evening. Still, this first part is arguably the most important.


    Unlike most guides, which are easily digestible and provide a basic overview of specific builds, this guide focuses very little in concrete details, emphasizing instead the general theory behind Legion TD. Its text is therefore far more vague, and of course littered with exceptions, making it far tougher to read and copy than a generic build. However, if you take the time and effort to understand, and comprehend the advice and general strategies given, you will see your ELO rise exponentially--and you’ll understand the basic tenants to a degree that you should be able to play virtually any legion to a modicum of success.


    This first part of the guide focuses on the basics of Legion TD--how to evaluate your resources and unit choice, as well as the general concepts behind all kinds of sending strategies. The second part, which is still under construction, will provide basic breakdowns of every legion, wave, and summon, along with general strengths, weaknesses and counters. If you remember nothing else, remember the 6 key points Cornep illustrates at the end of this section, and how the global economy in game shifts with each leak. These are the tools to victory, and will apply in every game of Legion TD 2 you play.

    I hope you enjoy this guide, and I hope it proves as useful to you as I feel it is. Best of luck and have fun while you climb the ladder!


    --Deutscherhawk


    Release the Kraken


    This guide will be focused on different aspects of the game, how to see if they are your weaknesses/strengths, how to improve those parts of the game, how to start learning new parts of the game and other helpful things to make you a better Legion TD 2 player overall!


    This guide is meant for players who have some experience in the game, or in wc 3/sc 2 versions of ltd. I will start with explaining some core things that have not been touched on my other guides, last a self-reflection section where you can learn a ton about different parts of the game.


    This will be the effect of reading this guide properly!


    [​IMG]



    The three main sections of the guide are:

    1. Welcome to the Jungle

    2. Strategies

    3. Identifying areas to improve


    1. The Essentials

    First we need to determine the 2 core parts of the game:

    • Defending

    • Resource management

    Defending

    At its core, this means you build enough to stay in the game. You might leak and still defend your lane, or you might be required to cover your team in front of the king. There are several different sub-categories to this part that one needs to keep in mind, and what they mean in practice.


    [​IMG]


    Value: If you look at bottom right side of the UI or press tab, you can see your fighter value. There is also a recommended unit value for each wave in the game, that will provide a rough estimate how much you need to kill the wave. Ideally you will be below value while the enemy sends weak mercenaries, and above value when the enemy sends hard.


    Where value is a very general picture of how much holding power you have on average, fighter choices you make during the game, have a much more wave to wave value, that you have to find out yourself or consult more veteran players on discord or here on the forums. This per wave value of a certain unit, greatly depends on the armor and attack type of the unit versus the armor and attack type of the wave. We will use Nightmare as the example unit, the unit is swift armor ( strong vs impact and weak vs piercing) and piercing attack ( strong vs arcane and swift armor and weak vs fortified and natural armor). Let us view waves 4 and 5 with nightmare in mind. Wave 4 is impact and swift, making it very good unit to have nightmare on. On wave 4 Nightmare is 144% effective, meaning it has a functional value of 266 gold. Against wave 5 nightmare suffers the opposite effect, the wave is nature armor and piercing attack, making it the perfect counter versus Nightmare. The value of Nightmare is only 134 gold, making it only 72% as effective as against a normal wave, and half as effective as against wave 4. Basically, you need 2x nightmare on 5, to do similar amount of work as 1 nightmare does on wave 4.


    Few examples of armor and attack types allowing good pushing:


    Pyro opening ( with 1-2 peewees) holds waves 1-5 without extreme sends, this allows the pyro to safely push 4 workers before wave 5, making it the only build capable of doing this safely every game. Why? Pyro has AoE to counter very tightly packed wave (honey flower is also very good due to the similar damage style), but the real reason is wave 5. Wave 5 is piercing attack and natural armor, this means the wave is perfectly countered by the pyro's magic attack and fortified armor, making it an extremely efficient for holding the wave. After wave 5, however, pyro needs to build hard to hold the next waves, since Pryo gets punished by the impact damage on 6 and the stun on your 2 units, as well as arcane armor of wave 7.


    Aqua combo + protons are an another example of this, the aqua combo is about 70/30 piercing and magic. This makes the combo extremely strong for waves 4-8. On wave 4, the piercing kills the wave. On wave 5 the magic kills the wave. On wave 6 the stun is a small factor as the combo damage will keep burning even when the units are stunned, and the wave has so few units that the combo procs a lot. Wave 7 is an average wave, as the combo does little damage due to the wave being arcane, but the wave being magic means they do barely any damage to the aqua units. Wave 8 is extremely good for aqua combos, the wave has swift so it takes good damage from both piercing and magic, and the wave hits magic damage making it do very little damage to the aquas.


    Armor and attack types make a MASSIVE difference per wave and per unit basis. This cannot be stressed enough, and if you learn 1 thing from reading this guide, this is the point to learn. Spamming one unit will make your build one dimensional, and exceedingly easy to counter. You need a mix of armor and attack types in order hold every wave securely.


    After knowing how much value you need to have for a certain wave, and then having that value in good units against the wave, there is a third and very important thing to consider, and it is Positioning.


    With bad positioning, you have nightmares running in first and dying, backline dps like starcaller or zeus dying before your tanks, auras dying first and so on. While value and what units someone has is very important, if you place the units wrong, you will still leak. Basics for this part is: Tanks to the front, Fighters next, behind fighters auras and such and lastly backline squishy units like zeus and daphne.


    Positioning also matters on what you place behind what. for example if you have a melee unit, it can be behind a ranged flying unit like tempest, and not get pathing issues, ensuring a tighter cluster of units. There are also options for flanking units, for example with fatalizers in mech, where your main stack is ranged, and you place the fatalizer slightly behind and other side, it will flank the wave and backline mercenaries.


    When your Value matches the wave, your armor and attack types are either balanced or optimized for the wave, and your units are positioned according to the positioning requirements needed, you will defend your lane.


    [​IMG]


    Resource management


    You have 4 different resources to manage and 3 of them gold, mythium and supply are linked to income.


    Gold is gained from killing the wave, mercenaries killed, income and enemy leaks. Gold is spent on units to defend on your lane and for workers to get mythium. This sounds very simple, but the right balance is a large portion between you and the next 400 extra ELO.


    Mythium is gained from workers. 1 worker gives you 0.2 mythium per second, or 1 mythium every 5 seconds. This is also shown when you press <tab>. Mythium is your weapon in this defensive game, as is discussed further in that setting in the strategy section of the guide.


    Supply might not seem important, but it can play a crucial role at certain points of the game, especially with wave 8-10 and wave 13-15 sends, when the mythium cost of supply can mean success or failure of those saves. The usual supply cost of an unit is 1 supply per 100 gold. There are some exceptions like butcher and APS, and very expensive towers that go over 300g per unit.


    Income is the key to victory. The more income you have, the more you can snowball. Snowballing from early workers is the thing to do, and after you have gained momentum, you won’t stop further snowballing. Income is gained from sending mercenaries with mythium. Almost always the team with more income wins, as the more income you have, the more gold you have, and the more offensive and defensive power you have.


    A very large portion of the game comes down to how you manage these resources. You build your defenses with gold, you spend gold to make workers, you gain mythium with your workers, you gain offensive power with mythium as well as gold through income. The resources form a cycle, and if you fall behind in one, for example gold, you will fall behind in mythium, and your supply will cost a larger portion of your mythium than normally.


    Time can also be considered a resource here, as you have limited time to check all the necessary things. The list below has the things i have found to be the most crucial to spend your time on each wave. All of these things are Extremely important, and should be done every wave.


    • See what mercenaries you got on your lane

    • Quickly glance what mercenaries other people on your team got. To see if all enemies saved, or if there are big leaks coming so you can plan for mythium spending.

    • Observe the lane that is sending to you in detail, see if that player built all his/hers gold on units, or if he made workers. This allows you to gauge the amount of mythium you will get next round. If he made no workers assume similar mythium output.

    • Observe the lane you are sending to. Ideally you glance here while look at the previous point, so you can see fully how much they have built. Analyze the lane. How much did he build for this round? How much does he have value in Tanks, fighters and dps units? When can you cause leaks with your mercenaries? What waves is he good on? Do you need to let the lane on your right know your lane pushed hard? These kind of questions should go through your mind.

    • Briefly check what kind of overall setups the other 2 lanes in the enemy team have.

    • What will you build for the next round?

    • What is the rest of your team doing? Do you need to cover their possible leaks on certain waves? Can you push harder since they have higher than normal value?

    • Can you push a worker?

    • Do you need to communicate something with your team? Maybe a save? Maybe enemy team is weak on wave X?

    2.Strategies

    There are several ways to win the game.

    • Full income
    • All-in
    • Economy into late game win
    • Bleed them dry
    • Black Monday
    There are mixes of these main types, that usually end up happening, but these can be considered the "base" types that have strengths, weaknesses, certain requirements from the players, certain playstyles and such. The best results happen when you are aware how to cover the weaknesses, how to exploit the strengths to your teams advantage and how to ensure your plan happens, and not the enemy plan ( assuming your enemy team has one).


    Full income: This way of winning, might sound weird, but if you aim to never let your king take damage, you will eventually win. This doesn't mean go full value from wave one, it means you have enough value to hold the waves, the enemy sends, boss levels and enough workers to pressure the enemy with your own sends so they can't push too hard and kill you. These games usually go to 20-21, but sometimes they can end around 17-19 if the team going for this tactic decide to do 1 round skip and the enemy is starved due to repeated saving.


    [​IMG]


    Strengths:

    • Little coordination required

    • No stress about everyone saving for the same wave

    • Less chances to make mistakes

    • If you don't lose, you win.

    • If you have sufficient game knowledge, you can predict enemy saves with high accuracy, and build for the right waves

    • Can play greedy and have impossible to lose on values late game
    Weaknesses:

    • Passive style

    • Requires good overall gamesense

    • Long games, unless really high WR, this is slow to climb the ladder with


    All-in: Killing the king in one wave, usually achieved by a very heavy send, to an extent that if the send fails the sending team is going to be clearly behind in overall value. This style is risky, if it fails, however will do a lot of damage and usually win the game when executed correctly.

    For example: Save from wave 10 to 15. If such a long save doesn't work, you won't survive the coming rounds with your low value. So either you win hard, or hope that the enemy messes up hard after.

    [​IMG]



    Strengths:

    • Can be unpreventable for the enemy team

    • When executed correctly, VERY hard to survive

    • Can often lead to a base race

    Weaknesses:

    • If anticipated and properly prepared, can lose the game for the sending team

    • Requires a minimum of 3 very weak lanes to the send, or at least no very strong lanes

    • Leaves chance to get undercut

    • Can often lead to a base race




    Economy into late game win: This tactic has a two-sided approach to 1-10, on one side, you push hard and get high income, and while pushing hard to get big income, you try to maximize enemy leaks by sending the hardest to clear minions to them. This means you do one round skips, aura sends and other methods to force out leaks. Early game leaks are SO good for you, you get extra gold and the enemy loses gold. This gold snowballs really hard, and 10g on wave 2 can be more beneficial for you than 50g on wave 11.

    For example, say you see the enemy team is weak on wave 9, 3 of them are weak, so 3 in your team save. You skip sending a dino on wave 8, costing 3x 24 or 72 gold. On average you sending harder on 9 for weaker lanes results in 5-6 leaks. This means 16 leaks spread over 3 lanes. 1 leak gives your team 8-12 gold spread out amongst the 4 players ( about 10-20% chance to get 3 gold instead of 2g each). On average You get 9 gold per kill to your team. Your team gains a total of 144 golds. This is a fairly conservative estimate, depending how good your sends are and how weak they are on the wave.


    So, you gained 144g, lost 72g, gained 72g total. Good job. But this is not all. The enemy team gains about 5 gold per leaked minion, meaning they lose about 8 gold per creep. The enemy team lost 128g. So you have gained an effective gold lead of 200 gold from your 1 round skip. But wait, that’s not all! If they had only 1 person holding, you will definitely cause the leaks to get to king, causing about 15-35% king damage. This amount of king damage will win you a race later in the game, or allow a lot weaker send to end the game.

    [​IMG]


    Strengths:

    • Very efficient style that can work against any enemy tactic

    • Early economic damage allows snowballing

    • Kill sends on 11-19 makes sure there is always a potential wave

    • Economic push early allows good holding value for late game

    • Individual skill allows destruction of 1 lane, which helps the team snowball
    Weaknesses:

    • Very skill intense. Average skill leads to sub-optimal results, low skill makes the tactic very sub-par.

    • Can lead to tunneling, as the players need to pay a lot of attention to 2 lanes, which can lead to ignoring the other lanes

    • Has potential to go too individual instead of team game


    Bleed them dry: This has some prerequisites that need to be met before you can go for it, and that is either 1-2 leaking or 1 cross leaking. You keep sending very hard, keep those lanes leaking, and soon it will be impossible for them to stop leaking, you get fed, and wave 20 will finish the game latest. This usually results in king losing HP over multiple turns small portions per wave.


    [​IMG]


    Strengths:

    • Snowballs very heavily

    • Flexible extension to other tactics

    • Easy to execute after started
    Weaknesses:

    • Requires some saving usually before you can go for this

    • Relies on enemy mistakes

    • Can't be the initial gameplan


    The Black Monday: This build is a combination of going full income, bleed 'em dry and economy in the late game. Basically what you do, is that you push income really hard, send units that the enemy is weak to and on the waves they are weak on, solo sending to cause economic damage to the enemy ALL GAME. Literally your goal is to kill the enemy value, workers, income and everything else they might need to do well in the game. A lot of 1-2 round skips, half skips, solo big saves. Essentially the goal is to gain gold advantage for your team, while causing massive economic damage to the enemy team.


    [​IMG]


    Strengths:

    • Causes the enemy to tilt

    • Fun to watch a lane struggle to hold, but being unable to recover

    • Very flexible strategy, can be changed mid game to any other

    • Cripples the enemy team, making it hard for them to win
    Weaknesses:

    • The highest skill requirement from individual for both sending and building

    • The highest skill requirement from working as a team to cover all possible waves

    • Communication is a must within the team
    As this might be the "strongest" tactic, i feel obliged to elaborate further. You can do it without meeting all the things below in an passable way. To pull this strategy off, i would say about 1600-1700 ELO is required, maybe even more.


    What you need to know to pull this off perfectly:

    • Every unit by heart in the game. This means you can tell what armor types, what attack types a lane has, how much value/dps/hp is in a certain type on the lane.

    • How every units abilities function, how they cause the above mentioned things to change, for example daphnes are actually very good on 13 due to the dancing their debuff causes, or how aquas are weak on 6 on paper, but absolute monsters in reality and so on.

    • Need to be able calculate the value of a lane to fairly accurate estimation ( within 100g), so you know several things such as: Their potential worker counts, if they saves part of their gold to build bigger next round, when they supply upgrade and so on. Basically, this needs to be done fast enough, so you can do this on 2 lanes ( the lane that sends to you, the lane that gets your send), while you still see how much sends you got AND communicate info to your team that they should know.

    • Need to calculate the mythium gain of the lane that sends to you ( linked with the point above), to estimate potential sends and to prepare for them, while not over preparing to maintain maximum push for maximum economic damage. So if your opponent is sending a fiend per round, you can be fairly certain that you won't get a random drake.

    • How to communicate efficiently with your team, this means you need to let others know when your people either push insane amount of value, or workers, or have massive weakness, or if they interfere with saves of your team by having good holder potential for a wave. Basically any outlier behavior from the 2 lanes you are paying attention to.

    • You need to know your builds exact hold potential. This means when the wave begins, and say you get a dino on wave 7, you immediately know if you hold or if you leak and know how much you leak, so you can spend 95% of the wave observing the enemy team.

    • You know the weak waves of each race, you know weak waves of each build and possible sends for all of them.




    So, we now know the main strategies, we know what strengths and weaknesses of different types. You can also expect the main types from the enemies, they might not be so clearly done, as it is common to lack a clear goal from wave 1, however you can still can use the above mentioned tactics as a guideline to counter your opponents.


    The current sending and saving guide : https://legiontd2.com/community/threads/corneps-guides-sending-and-saving.10043/

    The current what to send guide: https://legiontd2.com/community/threads/corneps-guides-what-to-send.10019/



    Read both guides before you continue, to ensure you can reflect as much as possible in the next section.



    This concludes the initial part of the guide. You should now be familiar with basics of the game, how they are connected with each other as well as how they relate to your game plan. The game strategy can make a big difference to your win %, especially if you communicate the strategy with your team, and get everyone to follow it.

    Master the basics and you will performance will raise faster than you think.

    The six key rules to always remember:

    • Never make workers when the enemy saves mythium.
    • Armor and attack types make and break the game. Never forget them.
    • Snowball through early workers.
    • Never underestimate the harm small leaks cause to the enemy.
    • Economy wins the game.
    • Always customize your mercenaries to the lane you are sending to.
    This is about 1/3rd of the Kraken, more will come after @deutscherhawk assists me in sorting the next 26 pages into a better format.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
    Larrax, Twig, Weilbockt and 5 others like this.
  2. Cornep

    Cornep Moderator

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    Identifying areas to improve



    I will now write down statements about the game, they will be numbered, and the same number in the next section offers ways to improve on that area. If you feel the statement is true, you should check the "solutions" below.


    If you agree with a lot of statements below, BE HAPPY! This means you can improve a lot, and have a lot of room to grow as a player. This is the best possible thing for a competitive game, where improving usually is tiny things, but if you have multiple, you can get a lot better [​IMG]


    For example:

    X. Holding wave 14 is hard/impossible.
    X) ( in next section): Wave 14 is the first magic wave after wave 8, so it is common to not have arcane armor. Make sure you have several arcane tanks for this wave, such as canopies, green devils or veteran/millenium. If you are playing elements, make sure your team knows you are weak on 14, if you go for 15 build ( firelords, fenix). The damage to kill the wave is piercing and impact. Units like doppelganger, fatalizer, canopie, millenium are great here to kill the wave.


    You will find major sections in the following order:
    • Essentials
    • Race specific
    • Sending
    • Waves

    Make sure you write down the numbers that apply to you as a player! This will help you a ton. I have bolded some very important points in both here and next section.


    The Essentials

    1. I struggle to have sufficient value to hold early waves. (1-9)
    2. I often leak wave 10
    3. I struggle to hold my lane on waves 11-15
    4. I struggle to hold my lane on waves 16-19
    5. I often don't hold wave 20
    6. When I finish a game, the score screen shows me lower than others in mythium harvested.
    7. When I finish a game, the score screen shows me lower than others on workers.
    8. When I finish a game, the score screen shows me lower than others on net worth and fighter value.
    9. During the game, i often notice i am behind my team on workers, and I don't know why.
    10. Often I am the only person sending mercenaries.
    11. I often send after the wave ends, when the night time starts.
    12. I often make multiple aura units because I like auras like butcher, APS or starcaller.
    13. My king often dies before the enemy king does.
    14. I often have gold left after building.
    15. I usually make workers even if i don't see enemy mercenaries on my lane.
    16. My units are dying in a different order to what i wanted.
    17. I often run out of time during building/night time.



    Race specifics
    1. As mech, I have problems with wave 4.
    2. As mech, I find boss waves to be hard, because I have no tanks.
    3. As mech, I have problems holding piercing waves.
    4. As mech, I struggle holding ranged waves.
    5. As forsaken, I struggle with fortified waves.
    6. As forsaken, I struggle against piercing waves.
    7. As forsaken, I find myself leaking when i start making Lord of Deaths/Hades.
    8. As grove, I have a very hard time with nature armor waves.
    9. As grove, ranged waves are hard to to hold for me.
    10. As grove, I usually have 1300 or more value on 10.
    11. As grove, i can't hold wave 20.
    12. As element, i can't hold wave 14.
    13. As element, wave 9 is very problematic for me.
    14. As element, wave 17 is very hard to hold.
    15. As element, wave 18 doesn't seem possible to hold.
    16. As element, I usually don't push workers during waves 5-8.
    17. As mastermind, i often find myself without arcane armor, which makes 7,8 and 14,15 extremely hard.
    18. As mastermind, I don’t pick units i haven’t built before.
    19. As mastermind, i often pick from maximum of 3 tiers.
    20. As mastermind, i usually reroll before thinking if i can get better or worse rolls to the slot, when combined with my other units.
    21. As mastermind, i always hope for specific combos.
    22. As mastermind, i pick the race because i used to play prophet in WC 3.

    Sending
    1. I rarely scout the lane i am sending to, before i send.
    2. I like to send the same mercenaries on.
    3. I like to send several aura units like pack leader or mole so the enemy really feels the auras.
    4. I think lizards are OP on wave 10.
    5. I like sending brutes on waves without impact damage, because brute has a lot of HP
    6. I send on wave X, because i lost on wave X last few games
    7. I send all 3 auras ( hermit, pack leader and mole) if i can, because auras usually make me leak
    8. I send big tanks against millenium/fenix, because they hit hard and need to be tanked
    9. My sends don't usually do as well as i think.
    10. I usually pick waves i want to save for, very early, like on wave 1 call a save 10-14, because i know people usually leak on them.
    11. I never change a save to a different wave after we decide something as a team.
    12. When the enemy is saving for a send, i usually make some workers so i can send harder to them.
    13. I send 4e against tanks always, because it kills tanks.
    14. I send same damage/attack type as the wave i am sending on.

    Waves

    1. I usually leak wave 1 to snail.
    2. It is common for me to leak wave 2.
    3. I often leak wave 3.
    4. Wave 4 is a challenge for me.
    5. Wave 5 is hard to hold because of the mini-boss.
    6. Wave 6 stun causes me to leak the wave.
    7. Wave 7 has been difficult for me to hold my lane on.
    8. Wave 8 being ranged causes problems for me.
    9. Wave 9 having anti-ranged ability is making the wave difficult to hold.
    10. I usually leak wave 10 boss with little HP.
    11. Wave 11 is very hard for me because the long range
    12. Wave 12 being swift causes me problems.
    13. Wave 13 being few big minions and fortified causes me to leak a bit very often
    14. Wave 14 is impossible to hold when enemy team saves for it.
    15. Wave 15 mini-boss and ranged combination is hard to hold.
    16. Wave 16 just wrecks me every time.
    17. Wave 17 is a very hard wave to hold.
    18. Wave 18 debuff is super hard, and the wave is even ranged!
    19. Wave 19 is too hard, nature armor and impact damage make a hard combination
    20. Wave 20 requires too much value, I can never hold it!
    21. Wave 21 I beat the game, but the enemy king survived longer


    You should now have a list of numbers, and hopefully some indication which color the number belonged to. Let's get started on improving!




    Improving time!



    The Essentials



    1. I struggle to have sufficient value to hold early waves. (1-9)
    1) There are a few possible causes for this

    a) You pushed too many workers too fast, and are undervalued.
    b) You have leaked too many waves
    c) You had no workers early, and are rushing to catch up with your teams workers in a short rush.
    d) the third kind of a hybrid situation is that you have too many workers AND bad units versus the wave. Example : Nightmares on wave 5, Pyro on wave 6

    What to do: Push slower, never make workers when the enemy saves, no exceptions.


    2.I often leak wave 10
    2) Leaking wave 10 is always costly. You give 28g to each enemy ( in a 4v4) which is a lot.

    What to do: don't make workers on 9, staying on 1 lower worker for 1 turn is worth risk of not leaking wave 10. The more optimal solution, is to make units that are better vs wave 10 than your current units, if you wish to stay on same value.


    3.I struggle to hold my lane on waves 11-15
    3) This situation had a few possibilities why it happened.

    a) You have very low income and your Net worth is very low. Low income is usually around 80-100, if the game is very fast and little leaks, low income is around 60-70. If this is the case, go with lower workers than usually to keep holding your lane.
    b) you pushed too many workers after 10 and have very little value. Push 1 worker less next game, repeat till you either leak 1-2 or barely hold. Repeat until you start holding
    c) The person who sends to you saved, and you kept making workers. Repeat next time without making workers when the enemy saves, if you leak, look at race specific advice on waves.


    4.I struggle to hold my lane on waves 16-19
    4) This part of the game, you should be over the recommended value thanks to income, or you will not only leak the wave, but you will get destroyed by the enemy sends. There are two reasons how this can happen:

    a) Enemy has been saving, and you were forced to stay with low workers, in which case they should be more starved ( gold-wise) if you didn't leak, if you leaked to their sends earlier ,they can be ahead in gold.
    b) You failed to make workers in early and mid-game and have fallen behind. Next game make more workers.


    5.I often don't hold wave 20
    5) This is where you need to have serious income, and have build for the wave. I will detail builds required to hold this later. Serious income has a few requirements: 6-8 workers on 10, 12-15 workers on 14 and income sending pretty much all game. Maximum of 1 save or you most likely wont have the value. As you need to specifically build to hold wave 20, if you do not build for this, make sure you win before 20 or cripple the enemy before 20 so they leak first.


    [​IMG]



    6. When I finish a game, the score screen shows me lower than others in mythium harvested.
    6) Mythium is an extremely important resource to harvest in Legion td 2. Simple answer to this is: Make more workers. The detailed answers:

    a) Sometimes if you are designated holder and other 3 push hard workers while you make sure to cover leaks, you can be behind.

    b) Enemy sending to you saved, thus forcing you to stay on low workers to hold. There is not much you can do here. As long as you hold the enemy send, you will come out ahead. Make sure you inform the person sending to the person sending to you, that his mercenaries go to a gold starved person, and can be made to leak hard.
    c) You had a bad game. This happens sometimes. You end up 1g short of normal build, you have horrible targeting and leak where you hold 95% of times. You get stunned on wave 6 and leak 3-4 where you almost always easily hold. This can't be prevented, but a truly bad game is rare.

    For example: in the picture above, I had a very low mythium harvested, as i was forced by red to stay at very low workers for first 10 levels of the game. This couldn't be helped, but if you look at red, he is doing a lot worse.


    7. When I finish a game, the score screen shows me lower than others on workers.
    7) This is a bit tricky one. There are currently some people who spend all of their gold on workers in the last few seconds of a game, to inflate statistics and try to get the MvP. Use the mythium harvested as a more accurate measure of how well you workered in the game, as that is not influenced by cheesy ePeen moves.

    What you should do, is follow what your team is doing at least once every 2 waves

    For example: In the scorescreen above, there was some significant cheesing of worker counts, from all 4 of us, If we had the worker counts in the scorescreen, there would be no way we would be so low on mythium harvested.


    8. When I finish a game, the score screen shows me lower than others on net worth and fighter value.
    8) This is not always a bad thing. Especially if you win, it doesn't matter. You might have had more workers to send harder, or the things discussed in past few points can have happened.

    If you lost:
    a) Did you make workers after they sent?
    b) Did you push too little early when workers have more time to yield more mythium and thus income through gold?
    c) Were you a holder early allowing others to push.
    d) If you have other reasons for this, write in the comments and we can go through them [​IMG]


    9. I saw big leaks during the game, but didn't see what sends caused them.
    9) You can see both friendly sends and enemy sends in the Waves section of the score screen and you can see both friendly and enemy builds in the Builds section of the score screen. These can be useful for your next games!


    10. Often I am the only person sending mercenaries.
    10) Two possibilities here, 1 is ok to good, other one is horrible for your team

    a) You sent to cause early economic damage and rest of the team happened to save that round. This is fine.
    b) You solo sent in a teamwide save. This is called Solosending, and it is the worst thing you can do in the game in regards to win chances. Solo sending is extremely bad for your team.


    11. I often send after the wave ends, when the night time starts.
    11) A very important thing to learn, is to send before Income. Income comes about a second after the building phase starts, also known as night time. If you never send before income, you will lose a lot of gold, and this gold is important. Every single gold in this game is important. If you have 100 income, and never send before income, you have lost 100 gold.

    There is 1 situation when it is OK to skip income and that is:
    a) You need more time to get a bigger send, but you need to get it before the next round starts. You can calculate your mythium gain before the round starts. You have about 30-35 seconds between waves, so 6x mythium per 5 seconds.


    [​IMG]



    12. I often make multiple aura units because I like auras like butcher, APS or starcaller.
    12) This is a common mistake by newer players, because auras with the same name DO NOT stack. that means, even if you make 5 butchers, there is still only 1 butcher aura giving them lifesteal.

    Auras with different names stack.
    Different units have different names for their auras.
    For example Butcher + Head chef auras stack, because they are different auras.
    APS + MPS stack. APS + APS doesn't stack, neither does MPS + MPS.
    Starcaller + starcaller Does not stack.
    Only exception when you can make more than 1 of the same aura unit, is late game, when 1 aura doesn't cover all of your units.


    [​IMG]



    13. My king often dies before the enemy king does.
    13) This means you lose. Losing can be a good experience. You usually make mistakes, small or big, and lose because of them. Or your team does mistakes. Learn from these, and it is much more likely the enemy king will die before yours next time!


    14. I often have gold left after building.
    14) 1 or 2 possibilities here.

    a) you saved gold to afford a big thing next round. This is risky
    b) You didn't full build and risk leaking a lot. 1x tier 1 unit can cause you to leak 40% of the wave.


    15. I usually make workers even if i don't see enemy mercenaries on my lane.
    15) Never make workers if the enemy saves. Very simple. Leaking is extremely punishing, there is 0 reason to do it intentionally. Just turtle up hard and survive the storm!

    16. My units are dying in a different order to what i wanted.
    16) This is a positioning problem. Whatever unit you think died too early, needs to be further back, closer to the side OR just have more frontline fighters or tanks on the side of the unit where the killing units flanked. Start with 0.5 tower space further behind or to the side next game and see how it works. Remember mini-bosses spawn on the left side of the wave on waves 15 and 5.


    17.I often run out of time during building/night time.
    17) This means you need to improve your time management during the rounds. Plan what you will build the next night, during the round. You know how much you get from the wave, from income and can roughly estimate gold gained from enemy leaks. This allows you to “build” in your mind during the round and then you need 2-3 seconds during the night for that.




    Race specifics


    [​IMG]


    1. As mech, I have problems with wave 4.
    1) you really have 2 good options for this wave. Either you make berserker on wave 1 as opener, or you go for pyro. You can hold with other units, but nothing holds brute unless you stay with 2 workers, which will harm you later on.


    2. As mech, I find boss waves to be hard, because I have no tanks.
    2) Mech is the only race right now, that does not have tanks, even if they are the only race with actual tanks as units. Jokes aside, the lack of tanks in Mech, has caused problems to a lot of players for holding boss waves. There is a very simple solution, and that is called Berserker/Fatalizer. You need to position the unit so it flanks, so behind and other side from your main mass of units, so it doesn’t tank the bosses or the waves, after all the unit is a high dps unit and not a fighter or tank. This is the simple solution for wave 10. For Wave 20, you want doomsdays, and some fatalizers and you will hold the wave.


    3. As mech, I have problems holding piercing waves.
    3) Mech is very heavy on arcane armor (veteran and millenium) and swift armor ( zeus, berserker) so some mech players have real problems with piercing waves like 11,12 or 17. To survive these waves, you need to split the damage between tempests/leviathan, aps/MPS and possible pyro. You need to have some of these units to help split the damage, or you will be very easy to counter.


    4. As mech, I struggle holding ranged waves.
    4) As mech ranged waves can also be a challenge, if you build a lot of veterans and berserkers, as they get killed on their way to the wave, especially on 11 and 18. For ranged waves, you want to fight them with ranged units, so try to go heavier on ranged units for these waves, instead of melee units.


    [​IMG]


    5. As forsaken, I struggle with fortified waves.
    5) As forsaken fortified waves are your weakness. Your only source of impact damage is Harbingers, which is a summoner unit and a stunner, so the unit is not built to deal damage, but to summon dogs and stun things. Harbinger is decent still vs waves like 13, as they can stun lock the drill golems. This is the reason why waves like 13 are challenging for forsaken. What you need to do is to counter the attack type of the wave to hold it. So swift armor for 13, arcane for 20 and such.


    6. As forsaken, I struggle against piercing waves.
    6) Forsaken builder can have difficulties with piercing waves, as a lot of builds rely on the dps of nightmares which is a swift unit, green devils to tank which are arcane. The wave to survive these, is to make sure you have butcher/chef to tank some of the damage, bonecrushers early and generally just out-dps the wave. With the dogs from harbinger being natural, you also have the option to swarm-tank the wave.


    7.As forsaken, I find myself leaking when i start making Lord of Deaths/Hades.
    7) Lord of Death/Hades is a very special type of unit, called summoner. This means most of the value of the unit, is in the summons they do. In practise, this means you need to have the summoner units survive as long as possible, so they get out as many summons as possible, thus giving you maximum value. The difference of one extra dragon from a LoD, can be the difference of leaking 30% of a wave.

    So, what to do? You need sustain, so a good frontline that stays alive long is good, and also the more lods you have, the more sustain your frontline has, as it keeps getting reinforcements. There are 2 good ways of doing this:

    a) Builds LoDs slowly over time, their power will kick in gradually.

    b) Start making LoDs on rounds you are already very strong, so you don’t need to rely on the unit to carry before you manage to get 3-4 of them.


    [​IMG]


    8. As grove, I have a very hard time with nature armor waves.
    8) Nature armor waves are the weakness of Grove, the only weakness of the race. You have basically no magic damage ( honeyflower doesn’t count, as it is countered by 2 major nature armor waves), and the only efficient way to kill nature armor, is magic damage. So, what to do? Counter the waves attack type. On wave 3, make a wileshroom to tank. On Wave 5, antler or honeyflower will tank. Wave 11 a whiteman will tank for ages. Wave 15, mass canopies and hope you get no sends. Wave 19, well tell your team to cover your leaks.


    9. As grove, ranged waves are hard to hold for me.
    9) As grove, ranged waves can be tricky, because 2/4 of them are nature armor. Wave 8 is simple, you have some wileshrooms/canopie and have consorts kill the wave. Wave 11 needs to be overvalued a bit, but whitemane tanks it very well. Wave 15 is basically impossible to hold with sends, but massing canopies is your best option. You should mass canopies anyway from 12-15 to hold the meta 14 sends, so you usually have a decent set-up for 15 without thinking too much about it. Wave 18 is the wave where Grove is the best race by far. You need 1-2 banana haven, and consorts. They will destroy the wave.


    10. As grove, I usually have 1300 or more value on 10.
    10) Grove is a very good race for holding wave 10. You can hold decently big sends with 1200 value, or no send with 1100 value and still kill the boss. Units like consorts and antler are amazing, especially if you have 1 daphne debuffing the boss. If you are 1300 value or over and the enemy did not save on wave 9, you should just make a worker and enjoy some extra mythium and income.


    11. As grove, i can't hold wave 20.
    11) https://plays.tv/video/59f76f7646a95f068f/grove-wave-20

    Grove is a bit strange. Bananas are by far the weakest t6 unit for wave 20 in the game. So to hold wave 20 as Grove, you need the following things. ALL THE CANOPIES, Some deathcaps, a few daphnes and maybe a whitemane or two.



    [​IMG]


    12. As element, i can't hold wave 14.
    12) Wave 14 and element, is a horrible combination, but massing starcaller + disciple with a few golems to tank you can avoid massive leaks.

    a) Tell your team that the enemy is going wave 14, and to build for that wave ( arcane armor, piercing or impact damage), even if there is only a wave 13 skip. If the enemy saves from wave 10, just assume they are going wave 14, especially if other lanes have units like zeus/pyro, honeyflower/deathcap, firearcher.

    b) Undercut the enemy by sending on 13 for big damage.


    13. As element, wave 9 is very problematic for me.
    13) For element, wave 9 can be very hard, as it counters aquas and other ranged units hard. It is common that players who send to element players skip wave 8, and send hermit + mole. This is hard to hold, and you need about 1.1k value to do so. The best way to minimize leaks here, is to have 1x Golem and some combination of disciple, firelord and violets.


    14. As element, Wave 17 is very hard to hold.
    14) Wave 17 is another wave that is extremely hard to hold for element, but not impossible. It is common to see teams go first 14, and then straight 17 against element heavy teams. What you need on 17 to hold: 2-3 golems, and mass windhawks. Don’t upgrade to violets, just mass windhawks.


    15. As element, Wave 18 doesn't seem possible to hold.
    15) Wave 18 is very hard for element, because the debuff from the frogs destroy the shields of your fire lords/fenix, and you don’t really have any late game piercing damage. The best advice for this wave, is to overbuild like crazy. Golems are pretty good as tanks, but you don’t have that much to deal with the wave.


    16. As element, I usually don't push workers much during waves 5-8.
    16) You should definitely push workers hard early game. Element has very large weaknesses in late game, so you need to compensate by having massive value, and economically damaged opponents. This means something along the lines of 6-7 workers by wave 7, send hard, income hard, and win.



    [​IMG]



    17. As mastermind, i often find myself without arcane armor, which makes 7,8 and 14,15 extremely hard.
    17) When you play mastermind, you should always try to get an unit with arcane armor. Arcane units in the game you want to get as the “1 arcane unit” are the following: Tier 1 Veteran, Tier 2 Gargoyle, Tier 3 Wileshroom and tier 6 millenium. Tier 2 aquas are also good, but they won’t work as frontline. Aquas work well for 7 and 8, but they will not cut it for 14 and 15, so make sure you have something for those waves.


    18. As mastermind, I don’t pick units i haven’t built before.
    18) This part has a few pieces of advice i can give you.

    a) Test all races at least for a few games before playing mastermind.

    b) All units have a purpose, some are not as clear, like gateguard seems like a tank, but it should actually be protected as the unit is a summoner. When you play mastermind, you need to use these unique strengths of the units for optimal result.

    c) There are some extremely strong combos in mastermind, that are not immediately obvious. Dark mage + fenix is one example. Dark mage debuff damages the fenix shield, giving fenix extreme damage increase, as the unit will get both attack speed and damage increase. Things like APS/MPS + doppel works as well as darkmage, more sustained damage, but less burst.


    19. As mastermind, i often pick units from maximum of 3 tiers.
    19) Picking only few tiers of units is risky, as you want to have as many options to build as possible, if all you have all t5, t6 and t1, you will have a bad time.

    Go for balanced “normal” rolls if you can, if you aim to godlike late game combos and can’t survive till wave 10, there is little point to having 4x t6.


    20. As mastermind, i usually pick really fast.
    20) It is good to take a moment to consider what you are rolling, to see if on average you get better rolls. What you want, is 2 attack types ( I consider piercing + magic to be the best, but magic + impact is also very good), 3 attack types is even better if you can squeeze that in.

    2 Armor types, 1 tank is fine, or 2 fighters. As long as you have 2 armor types you won’t get killed on every wave by sends. Make life harder for your enemies. Early game you can get by 1 armor type in the front, but post 10, you really need variety. Arcane + nature or Light + fortified are the ideal combos.


    Auras are good, but don’t go for 4 aura units if you have nothing else to build. Auras are supportive units, but you can’t win if you just support supports.

    [​IMG]


    21. As mastermind, i always hope for specific combos.
    21) One of the strength of mastermind, is that you can get absurdly strong combos. Please note it is optimal to go for combos blindly! I will list some of the best ones below that if there is no risk to lose overall fighter synergy, you can go for them:

    a) Dark mage + fenix + optional butcher/head chef. This combo is ridiculous late game. All your fenixes have over double damage, they heal like crazy, and you just wipe everything out. Late game combo, not for early game. So don’t try to go for this if you don’t go for late game strategy.

    b) Fatalizer + butcher + dark mage. Another very strong combo, works better than doppel with this combo, as fatalizer is not as squishy. Can be deployed on 10 already, destroys everything. If you can, try to get something else to melee and it will be unbeatable.

    c) Veteran + Aquas. This allows bonkers strong push on waves 7-8, a lot stronger than pure aquas can do, and safer. Early game combo.

    d) Starcaller + LoD/ hades, a very strong late game combination. This can be literally undefeatable when enough lods are with the starcaller. Go LoDs without harbingers, hades with harbingers.

    e) Daphne + Violet. This combo has all 3 damage types, and bonus defense for nature armor. Don’t go only these units, but they are extremely good when combined

    f) Nature armor + arcane armor the dream armor combo. Swift + fortified is also a combo with no weakness.

    g) Airforce: Leviathan + Canopie/Consort/Fenix/Violet

    h) Harbinger + Hades. Add Butcher, APS/Disciple for mega snowball unbeatable defense. Remember to see where your units fight, and place aps/starcaller around that spot so the aura gives the dogs sustain.

    i) Usually the best mastermind rolls are where it is very close to a race, but has 1 or 2 towers "improved" to cover for the races weak points. For example Grove with butcher, Mech with windhawk and such.

    22. As mastermind, i pick the race because i used to play prophet in WC 3.
    22) This is a very common reason i hear, for picking mastermind. This is risky, because the units are not identical with the wc 3 or sc 2 game. This is a different game, and should be treated like it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
  3. Cornep

    Cornep Moderator

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    Sending


    [​IMG]


    1. I rarely scout the lane i am sending to, before i send.
    1) This is a common mistake a lot of players do, even players in the top 10, they can forget to do this at times. You should always scout the lane you are sending to, because there is a small line between making the enemy leak 2 wave minions, and making them leak 10. That line is usually the mercenary choices you make.


    2. I like to send the same mercenaries every time.
    2) This is similar to the previous point. You send the same mercenaries, for example someone might always send hermit + mole on wave 9, and it will work wonders against set-ups like aquas and pyro, but be horrible versus things like canopies that would leak massively to pack leader.

    Always customize your mercenary choices based on who you are sending for!

    3. I like to send several aura units like pack leader or mole so the enemy really feels the auras.
    3) Mercenary auras do not stack, so only send 1 each. There is a exception of sending double mole, if you are afraid of one mole dying too fast. So if you send "auras" send 1x packleader, 1x hermit and 1x mole.


    4. I think lizards are OP on wave 10.
    4) Lizards are OK on wave 10, but they are only good against swift armor units, and arcane armor. This means units like doppelganger/nightmare or Fatalizer/berserker, but skipping wave 10 is MUCH better than sending against doppel/fatalizer.


    5. I like sending brutes on waves without impact damage, because brute has a lot of HP
    5) Brute as a mercenary, is a high cost unit, because it gives less income for the mythium cost than normal mercenaries, so you have to cause leaks with this, or you will lose gold. The special ability causes stuns, so you should send brute against 1 big unit lanes. Don’t sacrifice income for sends that you don’t expect to cause leaks.


    6. I send on wave X, because i lost on wave X last few games
    6) This type of mindset is extremely common in Legion TD 2, you keep losing on a certain wave, say 14 and logic would assume, 14 is OP right? Not really. While the wave is strong, so are all the other waves, when the enemy is weak for them. Meta is usually formed because people think something is OP, not because it actually is.

    a) Should you never do this? No, you can send on the same wave the enemy won or you won last game
    b) Should you blindly send on the same waves every game? No. Scout, see what waves are the best to send on against the enemy armor and attack types. Also make sure you look at your team every now and then, to see when you are weak!


    7. I send all 3 auras ( hermit, pack leader and mole) if i can, because auras usually make me leak.
    7) Auras are a very general send. They are usually not worth before wave 9, they can be, but usually only hermit or mole, vs AoE and small unit spams.

    a) Aura units have very little base stats ( HP, dps) vs non aura units, when you looking at the mythium cost. So if you send on, say wave 7 against canopies, there is no reason to go auras.

    b) For example you send versus full millenium/zeus on wave 16, hermit will essentially do nothing. Mole is good vs zeus, and pack leader is a very good send late game for damage ( excluding 15 and 18 as it runs in first and dies). Instead rather send piercing, or impact damage, to further destroy the holder.
    c) On waves 8,11,15,18 it is good to not send a mole, as it runs in and dies before the wave. Mole is also bad on waves 10 and 20 when the lane you are sending has aqua combo, as it is basically free 20 gold for them.
    d) Hermit is extremely good against any splash, AoE and late game waves, where multiple mobs are targeted at the same time. Also wave 10 and 20 are good for hermit.
    e) Pack leader is extremely good choice 7,9,12,14,16,17.


    snail vs millenium.png
    (Snail army vs gigantic unit)
    8. I send big tanks against millenium/fenix, because they hit hard and need to be tanked
    8) Massive units like Fenix and Millenium/doomsday with low attack speed and ridiculous damage, have a very high dps on paper, but a lot of it is calculated to overkill. If you send big tanks like kraken, they will not overkill, so the value of the send is very weak. What you want to send, is Snails, ALL THE SNAILS. Snails have very little HP, and they can bait quite often 3-4 doomsday or fenix hits. Which is basically as much as you need to kill a centaur.

    The only things that get destroyed by snail spam, are Millenium, Doomsday, Fenix, Violets and disciple/starcallers. Against other units go big, and never go back! Do note that against disciple/fenix kraken is also a very strong choice.

    9. My sends don't usually do as well as i think.
    9) There can be a lot of reasons for this:

    a) You chose a bad wave to send on. This is the most common type. Things like expecting daphne to be bad on 13, things that are not obvious from attack and armor types. These will be listed in the sending guide.

    b) You didn't save long enough. For example you saved 3 rounds, and could afford mimic + auras, but what you needed to make a massive leak, was centaur + auras, and to get that is 1 more round saved.
    c) You sent bad mercenaries. This is game specific, as you need to tailor the sends according to the lane you are sending to.


    10. I usually pick waves i want to save for, very early, like on wave 1 call a save 10-14, because i know people usually leak on them.
    10) This is good behavior and also detrimental. The good thing is, you are looking at sending opportunities early. The thing that can cause this to be bad, is if you stop checking ,and stick with original save plan, when it would be much better to change it. Keep scouting actively for the best round to send!

    11. I never change a save to a different wave after we decide something as a team.

    11) This is a common thing to see. Someone calls a wave to send on, say you decide on wave 9, when you see 3x aqua lanes and some daphnes. It is a good call at this point. However if on round 8 you notice the enemy now has 3 lanes with violets and 1 lane with antlers + daphne, the choice should be shifted to 10, and hammer out as many magic attacking mercenaries as possible.

    12. When the enemy is saving for a send, i usually make some workers so i can send harder to them.
    12) Never, never ever make workers when the enemy is saving. The extra leaks are not going to amount to 100 gold gained, you lose holding power, and most likely lose. 1 worker too many can be the difference in you holding your lane, and 5+ leaks at king, and leaking half of your lane and losing.

    13. I send 4e against tanks always, because it kills tanks.
    13) This is the standard way I see people sending. See tanks, send 4e ( Four eyes 300 mythium), as it is the mercenary to destroy the front line. It is an OK choice most of the time.

    a) Against arcane tanks, like canopies, milleniums and veterans, this choice is very bad, and you should instead send centaur or ghost knight to kill the front line. Go for the one with better armor type vs the lane.

    b) Against fortified tanks send 4e.
    c) Against nature armor tanks, always, always go 4e, if you can, go 4e + shaman for destruction on a global level.


    14. I send same damage/attack type as the wave i am sending on.
    14) This can be good, but quite often it is sub-optimal.

    You need to think here. If you send to a guy on wave 12, do you send piercing? What people usually have some tanks at this point, tanks don’t die to piercing, so will you send magic or fortified to kill the front line so the wave can kill the enemy backline? You should.

    Kill the front line, even if the majority of the lane is different type of units, BUT if you send for example on wave 12, I assume you sent because most of the lane ( fighters and backline ranged) is swift/arcane, so what you need to do, is get through the fat HP tanks in the front, and to do that you might need to send a centaur or 4e.



    Waves


    All the advices expect you to get an average send on the waves. You can hold non saves without the mentioned units easily.

    1. I usually leak wave 1 to snail.

    This comes simply down to greedy building. Every race has something to hold wave 1 with a worker before wave 1 starts. Full build and make units that are not hard countered by wave 1. Leaking 1-2 creeps might not sound big, but this can snowball into early big units like fast consorts, that lead to faster workers and so on.


    2.It is common for me to leak wave 2.
    2) There are a few reasons here.

    You went full magic damage like gargoyles and have 2 workers, Or your opponent skipped income to send a fiend. Fiend can be held if your units are good for the wave ( piercing or impact) while having 2 workers. Don’t have unspent money, and as a general rule, you wont leak here.


    3. I often leak wave 3.
    3) This is where armor types start making a clear difference.

    a) If you have nature armor, DO NOT go 3 workers before this wave.
    b) If the person sending to you has unsent mythium ( has sent 1 snail so far) stay at 2 workers.
    c) Arcane armor is good here, wileshroom, aquas, veterans/peewee, gargoyles very good.
    d) Avoid making units like butcher for this wave. Consorts are OK as they rock on wave 4.


    4. Wave 4 is a challenge for me.
    4) This wave is a tank buster with impact damage, and it counters tanks as tanks dont have piercing damage to do well against the waves swift armor.

    a) Mech struggles here unless you planned for this hold. You will have to extreme overbuild for brute, IF you don’t start with pyro or berserker, By far the best units to hold this. Zeus is OK, veteran barely does things, avoid Tempests.
    b) As forsaken, you have multiple choices. Nightmare is the ideal option, as it has the perfect match-up against the wave. Fire archers are also very good here. Butcher is good as a tank/supporting unit with the aura. Gateguard is also pretty good if protected.
    c) For grove there are a few options for holding this wave. Simple buzz mass, consorts, daphne, honeyflowers. Any combo with the following units and you are golden with 300-350 value depending on what you get as sends.
    d) Element likes this wave. You can hold brute with 3 workers fairly safely, if you make some protons and aquas/aqua upgrades. Just make sure you have 1 of the upgrades, so you can get the combo for wave 5 and be safe there.


    5. Wave 5 is hard to hold because of the mini-boss.
    5) This wave as small scorpions and a mini-boss, and it has almost polar opposite attack and armor types to the previous wave, making it often tricky to hold. It is common for players to have to full build for this wave.

    a) Mech can have an easy time here, depending on what units you have previously made. Pyro can solo hold this without sends, if you get sends and add a zeus you will hold anything the opponents can throw at you. APS is good for tanking the wave, tempests are also pretty good here. Peewee/veteran are horrible here, and berserker should be also avoided.
    b) Forsaken has some very solid options for this wave. Bonecrushers can’t really die here, especially with a butcher. Nightmare + dark mage, or several fire archers clears pretty much anything here.
    c) This is the easiest nature armor wave for Grove. Honeyflower is still very good, some consorts/wileshroom behind the flower and the wave gets cleared.

    d) Element has an easy time on this wave, if they have either Violet or the aqua combo.


    6. Wave 6 stun causes me to leak the wave.
    6) The stun on this wave, is the key factor on this wave. It is such a big factor, that it even surpasses armor types. If you rely on 1-2 units to carry your lane, you will not have a good time on this wave.

    a) Mech is in a very dangerous position IF you went Pyro or berserker here. Good opponent will skip 5, send a dino and trouble follows. Tempest / veteran build will be safe.
    b) Forsaken generally is good here, early game skeleton upgrades are very good here. Green devil and butcher are also solid, and so is nm + dm combo. Gateguard is also pretty good, harbinger is very nice.
    c) Grove has multiple options here. Good mix of consort, 1 flower, maybe a daphne, some wileshrooms. Multiple options to go for, all with different amounts of gold required.
    d) Element still remains very strong here with aqua combo or violets. You can hold this wave against a DT with 495 value with aqua combo and some proton + atom.


    7. Wave 7 has been difficult for me to hold my lane on.
    7) This is the first wave where arcane armor becomes very big factor to holding or leaking. You should definitely make arcane units, if you have any, because they are super high value for this and the next wave.

    a) Mech has an easy time here, if you make a veteran or two. Pyro can get hard countered by mole, so watch out for how much mythium the person sending to you is getting per wave. Berserker is pretty good, Tempests are good, millenium is boss if you have one here already. Fatalizer also completely demolishes everything here.
    b) Forsaken has a very good time here. Nightmare(s)/ Doppel will melt the wave with a dm buff. Green devils tank for days with butcher aura. Watch out for mimic saves.
    c) Grove laughs at this wave. Just make wileshroom/canopie. Consorts aren’t terrible either, daphne is also good.

    d) Element breezes through this wave with an aqua combo, some atoms and such. Mudman is a good addition if there is a save.


    8. Wave 8 being ranged causes problems for me.
    8) This wave can be difficult, if you don’t have a lot of arcane armor, if the enemy saved for a lot of tanky mercenaries, if you get a centaur and have 4 or more workers. Good way to counter a save, is build some damage to kill the dinos/centaur like Zeus, disciple and have different units made to kill the wave.

    a) Zeus is OK here, against a save, go for 3-4 veterans. Fatalizer destroys centaur sends, aps is also not that bad. Avoid millenium as it wastes most of its damage, and tempests because they kill neither the sends fast nor the wave.
    b) Forsaken holds the best if you have a doppelganger, if not nightmares with dark mages for damage. Green devils are extremely good here, they tank, they do decent damage, just a very good unit to make for this wave. Harbingers are very weak here.
    c) Grove I recommend 2 canopies, at least 1 daphne to mess with centaurs, some consorts and you are very safe. Avoid antler and honey flower.
    d) Element has a very easy time here with aqua combo, without sends you can hold with 550 or so, against sends i recommend 1 disciple to burst down the sends, maybe even a second combo if you expect a centaur, just avoid violets.


    9. Wave 9 having anti-ranged ability is making the wave difficult to hold.
    9) This ability is very underrated, it is actually pretty scary for ranged units, so make sure you have melee units or even full impact ranged setup can get completely demolished here.

    a) Mech has a few solutions for this. Fatalizer, Pyro and overbuilding. If you overbuild things, make zeus, MPS to tank, millenium ( not recommended as it sucks on 11-12), tempest/leviathan.
    b) Forsaken can have a good time here with harbinger + butcher. Doppel also mows down the cockroaches very nicely. Avoid making LoD’s for this wave.
    c) Grove simply needs some canopies, antler, honeyflower/deathcap and the wave is as good as dead. Avoid adding daphne/ranger for this wave, even if they are good on 10.
    d) Element usually struggles here, if you have an aqua combo, be VERY ALERT of a round 8 skip. Best units here are Golem and violets. Disciple/firelord can be OK, but not as good.


    10. I usually leak wave 10 boss with little HP.
    10) Leaking the boss with low HP ( <1000) is VERY bad. THis puts you behind an entire worker, and more, while giving the enemy team a worker's worth of gold. And while it doesn’t damage your king, it is a big economic boost to your opponent per boss leaked. It is worth staying at 1 worker lower, for a round, to make sure you hold this wave, if you commonly leak it, or don’t want to risk it.

    a) Mech has 1 good unit here, and that is Fatalizer. You can hold with 1000 value and get sends. As getting fatalizer is hard, double berserker with some supporting units like aps in melee range and such will get the job done just fine. If you have a pyro, and no fatalizer, I recommend about 1300 value to hold with income sends.
    b) Forsaken has the very sexy dm + nm/doppel for this boss. When you add 2 green devils the boss takes additional 20% damage, and with butcher your nightmares keep healing. This wave is very easy for forsaken. Harbinger is also pretty good here with the stun.
    c) Grove also has a very easy time here, ranger, daphne both very good, antler is very solid, canopies do good damage. Basically 0 weak units for this wave. 1200 ish value for a solid hold.
    d) Disciple, violet and golem are all very strong here. aquas also do decent job at killing short range sends.


    11. Wave 11 is very hard for me because the long range
    11) This wave can be hard if you are full piercing/impact, and especially if you went full arcane for 7-8 and swift to hold 10. Don’t yolo push if you are very weak on 12 and 13, even if you are strong here. The enemy can skip wave 11 and send hard on 12/13.

    a) Mech has an VERY easy time here. 3x zeus holds really well, pyro is also very good, fatalizer is very strong, aps/mps tanks for days for either zeus or fatalizer. 1300 holds normal income sends, get a good mix pyros and magic damage to clear even extreme sends.
    b) Forsaken is weak here.Harbinger is only good unit forsaken has here, everything else is destroyed. Chef/butcher can tank, but not ideal either. I recommend overbuilding in any case, especially against a skip/save from the enemy team. Avoid LoD’s here.

    c) Grove needs to out-tank the wave, as nature armor is always very hard for the race. 1 whitemane usually does the job, avoid deathcap here as the aura usually only hits 1-2 of the wave. Canopie heavy builds are very weak here, keep this in mind.
    d) Element has good options to hold here. 1 golem to tank holds for ages, Violets are good, 1 aqua combo also does nice amount of damage, disciples do good damage, firelords also do well here. If a big save have 2 golems or 1 golem and 2x mudman. They will tank long enough for your damage units to do well.


    12. Wave 12 being swift causes me problems.
    12) This wave can be tricky if you neglect to have piercing damage. It is also a common wave to be hit with a “surprise” send, where you skip wave 11, and send on 12. Pack leader and hermit/mole is very common here, and hard to hold. This wave can also cause problems to hold, if the enemy saves, and you assume a wave 13 save and build impact/swift.

    a) Mech has a few solutions for this wave. If the send is only a skip 11, MPS + fatalizer ( that flanks info MPS buff) will hold with standard 1700 value. If a bigger send, i recommend to have also 1 pyro to tank and to do decent damage. Basically, have APS/MPS to tank and damage, Pyro to tank and damage, fatalizer/berserkers flank so they don’t tank and you will not leak.
    b) Forsaken has a good time here. You can go Harbingers, Doppel/Nightmares, butcher + chef. These units all perform very well. Allow the harbinger + chef tank, and have doppels flank so your dps stays alive. DO NOT make LoD’s for here.
    c) Grove has a great time on this wave. Everything except canopies are great here. Consorts, daphnes, flowers, antler/whitemane and bananas also do very well. If there is a save from 10, it can go to 13 or 14, keep that in mind, as canopies are the only thing very good on 14 on Grove.
    d) Element has good units here. Golem tanks for days ( but don’t make too many if the enemy is going 13). Aqua combo does well here, so do Violets. Fenix is also OK, and excellent preparation unit for 13. For element it is extremely important here to see what your team has, if the enemy saved here, they are most likely going 14, co-ordinate with your team for you to cover 13, and they cover 14.


    13. Wave 13 being a few big minions and fortified causes me to leak very often.
    13) This can be a challenging wave for multiple set-ups. Extreme dps units like fatalizer, doppelganger are countered hard by fortified armor, but become tanky units instead with their swift armor, making the units not give the dps they usually provide, but instead be a not very tanky low-ish dps unit. Being very few units, leaking 2-3 on all lanes with mercenaries can easily lead to king dying, which is unlike other waves. The wave itself is a high HP one, so any percentage based damage is very good here.

    a) Mech has a few options. It highly depends on what you already have for this wave , but millenium/doomsday are beasts, zeus are good, and fatalizers are also pretty good as they tank the wave very well. Just make sure you have enough meat in the front to protect milleniums/zeus
    b) Harbingers, headchef/butcher, darkmages are solid here. With this setup, you have stuns, healing and a lot of dogs. Overall, not a very easy wave for forsaken.
    c) Grove needs a mix of canopies, antler/whitemane and one or two daphnes ( for the debuff). This way 4e doesn’t get crazy value vs pure antler/whitemane, canopies slow them down, and prevents you from getting steamrolled on 14 and 15.
    d) Element is boss here. Fenix is literally the best unit for this wave. Add some firelords, 1 starcaller, some disciples and you will beat any send if you held workers when they started saving.


    14. Wave 14 is impossible to hold when enemy team saves for it.
    14) The wave can be tricky, if you are very heavy on spell damage such as zeus, honeyflower, aqua combo or other units that rely on spells. It is also a magic wave ( last one was wave 8), and very tightly packed wave, so a lot of worms will hit one unit.

    a) Mech has good units here, Millenium is an absolute beast here, and so is fatalizer. APS/MPS also good. Avoid zeus, pyro if you suspect a send here.
    b) Forsaken has good options for this wave. Doppelganger is an absolute beast here with dm + chef. Have 2-3 and you will hold. Add some greendevils to tank and you are good to go.
    c) Grove has 1 solution, and that is canopies. MASS CANOPIES. Daphne is also decent, but more canopies.

    d) Element had very few options here. Either you tell your team to hold it, or you mass starcaller/disciple.


    15. Wave 15 mini-boss and ranged combination is hard to hold.
    15) This wave can be very hard if you have no magic damage ( grove or MM) or if you rely on auras like aps/mps to buff melee units. Also arcane armor is king here.

    a) Mech has a ton of options: Zeus for damage, Pyro for damage/meatwall, Millenium for damage/meatwall and fatalizer for damage.

    b) Forsaken has a good opportunity to go LoDs here, greendevils are also very good. Avoid harbingers.
    c) Grove has difficulties here due to lack of magic damage, but the way to survive here is the same as on 14. MASS CANOPIES, easy life.
    d) Element excels here. Make some fenix/firelord and disciple/starcaller. You won’t leak.


    16. Wave 16 just wrecks me every time.
    16) This wave has a very good synergy of having swift armor and impact damage. This armor /attack type combo generally wrecks frontline fighters and tanks, but dies to glass cannon dps units like doppelganger,fatalizer.

    a) Fatalizer all day every day. 1 fatalizer outperforms 3x berserker, so if you have an option of upgrading vs making 2 new ones, upgrade. Everything else from mech just dies here. If you have APS/MPS with melee placement, you will destroy any and every send here.
    b) Forsaken has 3 options here. Harbinger spam holds VERY well this and next wave, doppelganger is insane here, and hades with enough harbingers is also very nice.
    c) Grove has some good options here. Deathcaps tank really nicely, whitemane/antler tank really nicely. Daphne, Banana bunk/haven work really well to kill the wave. Make sure you have a proper balance of units.
    d) Element is decent here. Violets are pretty good. Fenixes are very nice as they are swift armor. Don’t make golems here, they are dead value.


    17. Wave 17 is a very hard wave to hold.

    17) This wave essentially is the opposite of 17, here front line units ( nature and fortified) are king, and impact damage as well as piercing damage is very good. Strong wave against squishy set-ups and magic.

    a) Mech has good damage for this wave, but basically no good armor type. I suggest making all the gold in leviathans to the front after 16, if there is a send coming here, if not just ignore it and make milleniums/fatalizer. They have good damage vs the wave, so it’s essentially a dps race.
    b) Forsaken is a boss here. Harbinger mass is VERY strong, and with some hades to spawn infinite imps, you will have a fun time here.
    c) Grove is very solid here, banana haven is perfect unit for this wave. antler/whitemane also very good. Flowers tank well, and canopies in the back aren’t horrible either.
    d) Element struggles here. Golems tank well, but as element is essentially all magic damage lategame, this wave is a challenge. I suggest making some golems if a send is coming and then mass violets.


    18. Wave 18 debuff is super hard, and the wave is even ranged!
    18) This wave is a tricky one. The wave is designed to slow melee units, to prevent them to getting to the wave, and dealing both piercing and magic damage. The Damage over-time effect is very strong, but while there is strength, there is weakness. If you have a few VERY strong tanks like whitemane or golem, a lot of the DoT is nullified.

    a) Mech lacks a good answer for the wave, however if you use blackmagic trickery, you can hold. Some zeus + milleniums to kill the tanky sends, and mass peewee with fatalizers holds. Mass peewee will bait volleys from the wave, causing massive dps loss to the wave and fatalizers will do glorious damage while peewees distract the froggies.
    b) Forsaken has a VERY solid answer here, and that is summons. Harbingers and hades combo will laugh at the wave, as multiple volleys go for 1 or 2 dogs each, giving your units plenty of time to wipe the frogs of the map.
    c) Grove has decent options in the form of some whitemane to tank the volleys for a long time, banana havens do a LOT of damage to the frogs as well as reflect a lot. Daphne also do well.
    d) Element is pretty much destroyed here. Fenix lose their mana shield to the DoT, disciple/starcaller die in a blink of an eye. Golems tank decently, and mass violet is OK, but not optimal. Just try to overvalue to the best of your ability.


    19. Wave 19 is too hard, nature armor and impact damage make a hard combination
    19) Wave 19 can be a challenge, especially if you are very heavy on arcane armor in preparation for wave 20, or you avoided magic damage because of wave 17. Magic damage is key to victory here.

    a) So many good options for Mech. Fatalizer is very tanky here thanks to swift armor, and some magic damage thanks to fatalizer on-hit passive. Zeus mass does extremely well as well. Avoid leviathans. Milleniums are OK.
    b) Forsaken needs Hades to do well here, if you have a decent amount of harbingers to spawn dogs for hades, you will do well here. The imps tank while hades dish out magic damage.
    d) This is the nemesis wave of Grove. 2 options what will happen here. Either you make several deathcaps and hold OR you mass canopies for wave 20 and leak.

    c) Element laughs at this wave. Fenix is incredible, firelord is incredible, disciple mass is also nice.


    20. Wave 20 requires too much value, I can never hold it!
    20) There are a few things to note about this wave. 1) it has Bouncing attack 2) some sends can be extremely scary like shaman 3) if you don’t have the right armor and attack type for this, you will not hold.

    a) Fatalizers and Doomsday are the solution here. Zeus mass is also ok as dps, but melts to few hits from the boss. Doomsdays are most likely the best unit in the game for this, perfect armor and attack type matches, massive unit so can be spread out to avoid bounces, and APS/MPS aura give big boost to value.
    b) Forsaken needs harbingers to make dogs, some green devils to debuff the boss to take more initial damage, and hades mass to spawn infinite imps.
    c) Grove has 1 solution to hold here, and that is called Mass canopies. ALL THE CANOPIES. Some rangers and daphne are good for increased damage to the boss, and reduced damage done.
    d) Element has 2 options. Fenixes are a monstrosity thanks to their manashield, attack and armor type. starcaller/disciple mass is the other. If you get few volleys off, the boss is dead.


    21. Wave 21 I beat the game, but the enemy king survived longer
    21) Essentially this is a race to see who survives the longest. Every wave gets harder, so usually you need a few waves for the wave to get stronger to cause leaks. The wave HAS SPLASH. This means small unit melee mass gets absolutely destroyed here.

    a) Mech, milleniums/doomsday, some zeus for dps. Just max value and make sure everything has APS/MPS buffs.
    b) Forsaken is not that strong here due to the splash, sneak in a few doppels ( 1-3), and make sure you have 2 sets of butcher/chef healing the summoner mass.
    c) Grove is beast here. Whitemanes are incredible, daphne/ranger abilities are great, bananas are good. To survive 20 assumption is you have a ton of canopies, which is ok, but they get splashed down.
    d) Element is the strongest race here. Same things as 20 are incredible here. Fenixes scale harder every wave the game goes on, disciple mass is also incredible.



    Congratulations for making it this far!

    Hopefully you found out your personal weakpoints, possible solutions for them and now you can test them changes in games!

    If you have ANY questions, feel free to ask here, or PM me here or discord.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
  4. xanarot

    xanarot Member

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    To add to defending and overall value is their characteristic.
    You got:
    - Tanks (duh)
    - BIG DPS (single unit that hits for a ton, i.e. doppel/doomsday)
    - lotsofsmallpricks DPS (hits often for a tiny bit i.e. T1 spam, zeus, etc)
    - Utility (aura's, big secondary effects like buzz/ranger/daphne/green devil)
    - Multi-purpose (i.e. firelord is quite tank-role, fenix is much more dps. leviathan/starcaller gaining aura on upgrade)
    - Ranged
    - Melee ground
    - Melee flying

    If you go all-out melee, you will become weak to centaur sends. All-out ranged, you risk creeps walking arround your tanks and straight into your back line, breaking your dps before your tanks.
    But having too many units on the front, makes centaur interesting.
    Lots of small dps means you're weak to mole send. Single big dps means it could get sniped and you suddenly watch a single kill ruin 20% of your teams dps.
    Utility doesnt really shine in value untill you got enough units for them to support.


    For example mech.
    APS is a nice unit for 165g. Once you got say 3 fatalizers and bunch of tempest/leviathan in range of it, the DPS boost it gives alone provides more dps than its value. Real utility unit, get stronger the more units you have in its range.
    Yet on ranged waves they could potentially all walk outside of APS range, severely limiting your holding power. But building it on the frontline to counter this, risks it getting sniped off early in melee waves. Also, you gotta ask yourself if priority should be for it to boost (do you want to primarily boost the pierce/magic, or impact), and which is a nice bonus if they happen to be in range.
    So carefull placement (as well as picking the right moment, value wise, to build it!) can make a huge difference on your teams strength.

    Another example is the older pyro-zeus build (lets say pyro, 2 vets, 5+ zeus with APS on W12). Common to have pyro as main frontline on W12 with 2 vets, only to watch the creeps number/size be literally too much for the setup to handle. This then makes them walk arround the back trying to find room to fight, switch to melt your zeus instead, and suddenly make you leak much harder than you should have on paper.


    So dont stare blindly on value. Or on the wave/unit typing. If your tank vs dps balance is too far off, or your utility isnt supporting the right unit, that can also break your defense even if you are on the right value and have the right units.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  5. Cornep

    Cornep Moderator

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    @xanarot I know these. I actually had them in there in one of the versions, but I felt they cluttered the value part too much, as this guide is more about game mechanics than specific unit types. Well, the upcoming parts do contain quite a lot of that but then again, the upcoming parts contain pretty much things from every possible part of the game. The guide is a bit incomplete right now, the last parts actually discuss things like aura stacking, when to get them etc.

    You are indeed correct with your examples. For example APS which is 165g, is maybe the only unit above 150g that leaks wave 1 as hard as it does to a snail. I mean, even disciple solo holds wave 1 with snail and it has literally the worst armor/attack match-up against the wave. Thus showing just how much of the units value is in the aura, which is a very strong one. This applies to ranger/daphne which people consider to be weak, where i see the unit being on the strong side of balanced.
     
  6. Cornep

    Cornep Moderator

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    The entire kraken has been released, Take your time reading it, see if you can see yourself doing the statements, ask any questions and then improve!
     
  7. KevinTheCarry

    KevinTheCarry Member

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    Cornep - Amazing guide. Question: I've tried never buying workers when the enemy saves, but it seems to make me lose in the later waves because they save so often. Instead of having 11-14 workers on wave 15, I have 6 workers and my income is 150 lower. I usually don't buy workers when they stop sending for 2 or more rounds. Am I doing something wrong, or should I expect my income to be so much lower?
     
  8. Cornep

    Cornep Moderator

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    Thanks!

    So, this is a rule of thumb. There are exceptions like going for an undercut ( sending 1 round before the enemy).

    This goes a bit beyond the basics and can backfire.

    I have a base rule of having a certain amount of workers ALWAYS on certain points of the game. This does depend on what race you play or on your MM rolls, but what I go for generally are the following:
    2 workers 1-4,
    3rd worker by 5 unless 0 sends so far
    4 on 7 ( unless enemy has saved from wave 3)
    5-6 workers by wave 10 ( unless enemy saved since wave 5)

    Like, the reason you dont go workers when the enemy does a save, is that you gain a gold leak, IF you hold the send and you send.

    When the enemy saves, both you and them lose potential gold. The less saving there is, the more income and workers you can have.
    6 workers on 15 is too little, you should have that on 10 even with some saves before 10.

    more advanced: If the enemy only saves on you, you can push normally. Only do this if no-one else is getting saved on. As long as you don't leak too hard, the income and workers you have made will benefit you hard. Make sure your team knows you will leak, and they shouldnt go super risky. I wouldnt recommend doing this unless you can trust your team to hold your leaks.

    Only go for auras early if you are sure the enemy will leak, the loss of income from sending aura units will be a decent amount. You do gain gold advantage if the enemy leaks, and it also fucks their build.
     
    KevinTheCarry likes this.