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Masters Cup II with $ Prize Pool

Discussion in 'Tournaments & Leagues' started by Jules, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. Crazy

    Crazy Member

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    Guess it will be without a legion ban then lul <3
     
  2. Roshkatul

    Roshkatul Member

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    On a scale from 1 to 10, 10 being "pick legions to win", 2 being "leaks every wave" and 1 being "suicide cross", how tryhard is the showmatch gonna be? lul
     
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  3. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    The show match will be played with the same rules as the tournament. We're playing to win!
     
  4. EinfachManuel

    EinfachManuel Member

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    I'd really like to play the tournament but as someone who mains a legion i won't have fun sadly.

    why are legions allways disadvantaged :/
    Lower Income, No Rerolls, not allowed to play in tournaments (basically)
     
  5. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    The team list and bracket are now up. Bracketing is done according to standard Swiss rules. Feel free to scout your opponents and prepare for your first game on Saturday, August 11th. Check-in for the tournament is at 9:40am PST (6:40pm CEST).
    Most competitive players prefer Mastermind and asked for legions to be banned entirely. We thought having 1 ban was a reasonable compromise. I'm sorry it's not ideal for anyone who plays just one legion.

    By the way, Mastermind has exactly a 50% win rate, so legions are viable. That doesn't mean every legion is always viable (Grove is a bit weak right now), but on the whole, they are.
     
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  6. EinfachManuel

    EinfachManuel Member

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    Well i will still play in the tournament because I think it will be fun but banning legions is a bad idea i think. No legion is OP and needs to be banned but on the other site some people just want to play there favorite legion and now they are forced to play something they don't really enjoy. (me for example)
     
  7. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    I completely understand your point of view and why you might be frustrated, but just to just to play devil's advocate:

    I would challenge the claim that "no legion is OP." Let's assume 50% win rate means balanced, >50% win rate means strong, and <50% win rate means weak. It's not as simple as that, but let's just pretend it's true for the sake of argument.

    Mastermind has a 50% win rate (balanced), Grove has a <50% win rate (weak), which, by definition, means at least one other legion has a >50% win rate (strong). In any given patch, it's unlikely for all legions to be perfectly balanced. Especially as we add more legions to the game, it's almost inevitable that one will be too strong. This isn't a big deal if it's addressed quickly. Every legion has been the strongest and the weakest at some point in time, and it changes from patch-to-patch. In the long run, it all balances out.

    However, in a tournament, there is no "long run" because the tournament only lasts 2 days. If one legion is dominant for the patch, it would warp the entire tournament meta. Having a ban keeps legion balance in check and makes sure the tournament is enjoyable for most participants and viewers.

    Even if you don't agree, I hope that makes sense! I'm glad to see you playing in the tournament. :)
     
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  8. EinfachManuel

    EinfachManuel Member

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    I agree with you but then i don't understand why it's only available for tournaments.
    Most people will play the tournament for fun and not for winning it.
    Normal games are very competitive but banning is not available there. Why? (not like I want it. Just wondering why a tournament need bans and a competitive game not)
     
  9. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    Great question. Two reasons:
    1. The tournament has a $500 prize pool, in-game badges, and glory/bragging rights as rewards. Yes, everyone's playing for fun, but it's also a very competitive group of people, and almost everyone is playing to win. $500 isn't a massive amount, but it's enough for people to care and respectable for an indie game.
    2. See my comments above about the "long run." In normal games, it's not a big deal if one legion is OP because it usually gets addressed quickly, and the strongest legion cycles and varies from patch-to-patch. Element might be too strong one patch, then Grove, then Forsaken, then Mech. As long as we're continuously updating the game, any advantage a particular legion has one patch gets washed out over the long run. In a tournament, there is no "long run" because the tournament only lasts 2 days. If one legion is dominant for the patch, it warps the entire tournament meta and can ruin the experience for both participants and viewers.
     
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  10. EinfachManuel

    EinfachManuel Member

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    Well I guess you are right.

    I still have a idea and I'd like to know what you think about it.

    How about a team can ban a legion for the whole day instead of a game.
    This way it would be more like "we don't want to face forsaken. Let's ban it for all our enemies" instead of "oh he only plays Grove. Let's ban grove so he is forced to try something new"

    Another idea would be to allow bans at the final games. For example starting at quarter final. This way casual players can enjoy there games and when it gets more serious people can make there bans
     
    Jules likes this.
  11. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    Those are cool suggestions. Keep in mind that this is a Swiss tournament, so there are no quarterfinals - everyone just plays 10 games.

    I think it could work to have no legions ban on day 1 and then one legion ban on day 2. We can't change it for this tournament since we already announced the format/rules, but it's definitely worth considering for the next one. Appreciate the suggestion, EinfachManuel!
     
  12. Seraphon

    Seraphon Member

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    Could it be possible to have third and fourth-place play-off and final played at different time ? I mean, it could be interesting to have the stream of those two matches.

    By the way, @EinfachManuel, I would say 50% teams are playing for the best classment as they could. What's more, I really think Legions are more designed for funny game and/or beginners. Competitive games should be only on Mastermind I think. But that's just my opinions ^^
     
  13. Roshkatul

    Roshkatul Member

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    The tournament is meant to be competitive, so why would someone who only knows 25% of the units (soon to be 20%) should win over players who know the game much better, but don't want to play a legion? You could also argue that this would ruin the fun of mastermind players, which have the superiority in numbers.

    + There's only one legion ban at the moment.. If you don't like playing mastermind, there's no way you don't know how to play at least 2 legions, considering the rating requirements needed to join the tournament.
     
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  14. EinfachManuel

    EinfachManuel Member

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    i totaly agree with you. legions are good to learn the game and get better.
    Even if mm got 50% winrate i think that its stronger then legions on higher elo since there are so much more possibilities. You can play a legion 100% perfect and could still lose the game when a mastermind player can give 110%. The risk of mastermind is that a bad roll could mean that you can only give 90%.

    But i dont think competitive should be for mastermind only. I like the competitive aspect but i really like to main a class and i really enjoy it.
    It doenst bother me, that i will never have a 110% game and that i will probably never reach top20 overall. I can still mess myself with other grove players. I was rank1 grove for a few hours and it was super satisfying. I would be really mad if it wouldn be possible to play legions in normal games and i think its part of competitive even if some people dont like it :)

    well i reached 2k rating in season1 with grove only and my peak rating in s2 is 1800.
    I dont play mastermind or other legions but i still fulfill the rating requirements.
    So im a player who cant play the tournament competitive because my enemies will allways ban grove ofc.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
  15. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    Heads up: Any team that does not check in on time Saturday, August 11 at 9:40am PST (6:40pm CEST) will be automatically disqualified. A Swiss tournament requires everyone to show up and play every game on time. We can't risk delaying the tournament because one team is late. If your team is late for the 2nd-10th game, you will forfeit that game. If your team is late for checking in, you will be DQ'd.
     
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  16. Seraphon

    Seraphon Member

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    @Jules , Is it important to be both here on the check in or just one member is enough ?

    Thank you in advance.
     
  17. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    Both members. Check-in is 10 minutes before game 1 starts, so I think it's reasonable to expect both members to be there.
     
  18. FaithOfHeaven

    FaithOfHeaven Member

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    If I understand this correctly, for every game people get 40minutes. Yesterday I had a game which took 36,70 min (was lvl 21 round 2). So that's pretty close to 40 minutes. What will happen if a game takes longer than 40 minutes? Or do you have data that it never happens?
     
  19. foliesseer

    foliesseer Member

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    So I assume the next game gets delayed a little bit if it somehow happens. I think you still need to send a message 5 minutes prior stating that you are still in-game and then it's fine.
     
  20. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    Thanks for asking. Legion TD 2 games are ~24 minutes on average, and only 1% of games are 35-40 minutes. It's not essential that every round starts on time, just that the tournament starts and ends on schedule. By allotting 40 minutes/game, we shouldn't have any problems. If one game goes long, the next round will just start a few minutes later.