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Misinformation/Lies in the Early Acces page in Steam

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Xarku, Jul 18, 2019.

  1. Xarku

    Xarku Member

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    Yesterday I was checking this game's Early Access information, which can be found here:



    The devs try to explain why they chose the Early Access route, while also trying to make clear their objectives, so the possible buyers know where they are putting their money into. It's easily checkable, but those paragraphs are full of misinformation. At first, I thought that it was an innocent mistake, maybe as a consequence of poor planning and unexpected problems, and I thought that they just simply didn't edit the text since long ago.

    But then, when I kept scrolling down, I saw that several parts of the text have been updated not long ago (maybe 2 months at most). So basically this: Why do you update certain parts that benefit you as a company (new legions, new map) but you purposely don't edit the ones that you certainly know that you aren't going to achieve? This is shady, dishonest and ridiculous. Here you can see some examples of what I mean:


    So here, 3 of 4 features are not even planned (enchantments, wtf?) and they obviously won't be done before the full release.


    Do we really need to argue this one? It's just a blatant insult.

    So do you want to go full release in 4-5 months? That looks interesting.

    And here you have the proof that they edited this recently but chose to let those previous parts unaltered:

    Here they added atlantean, nomad, 2v2, prophet, custom games, etc.

    So, what do you devs @Lisk @Jules @EpvpDani have to say about this? Was it unintentional? Is it intended? Thanks in advance.
     
  2. GvR Mr Mister

    GvR Mr Mister Member

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    Looking at the prio list, these features are planned?!

    So you say the devs dont talk to the community nor reading forum posts?
    I did not play any game with more communication between devs/community yet. Can you talk to a game companies devs via pm or do they answer your posts?

    Only point i agree, but to be honest its pretty hard to give accurate eta's. maybe just remove this part
     
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  3. Xarku

    Xarku Member

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    Yeah, enchantments were also planned and with the concept finished 2 years ago. I like their current status.

    And yeah, I'm saying that the devs don't talk to the community. I mean, if they only do communicate with the community by saying "ey, thanks for the feedback, but we will do whatever we want cos we know more", that is the exact same thing as not communicating. And I don't care about other companies since I didn't buy their game under that premise. League of Legends won't tell you "ey, buy my game, i will listen to your feedback!!". It's not comparable.
     
  4. EpvpDani

    EpvpDani Developer Staff Member

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    Hey,
    first of all I'm not really sure why you would just accuse us of lies and misinformation instead of just asking these things directly without any accusations. Like GVR said 90% of your post can be explained with priority list and previous announcements: https://legiontd2.com/community/threads/major-features-priority-list-up-to-date.11126/

    Which 3 of 4 features are not even planned?
    Enchantments are something that have been announced with a design concept ages ago (https://beta.legiontd2.com/updates/enchantments/) but were de-priorized and kinda replaced by legion spells for now. Not sure if it's still something that will be implemented, so for now its very low priority. But I agree that this could be removed from the list of features in the full version, however the early access description only gets updated in parts (when a new legion comes out or major changes like 2v2) and wasnt completly rewritten when it was updated. It is also still in the game client in your profile and hasnt been removed yet: [​IMG]

    The only 2 other things you mentioned are a shop and guilds which I personally worked on in the past but it was put in standby for now in favor of the upcoming Lobby 2.0 update. In case you still dont believe, here a very basic WIP screenshot how Guilds and the shop may look like in future (still might change a lot since it was very early in progress, each of the tabs already had functionality but we were missing some features from our third-party backend for stuff like listing all guilds, so we rather shifted development to other things like lobby 2.0 instead of implementing those system ourself because it would cost even more time):
    [​IMG]

    Also another WIP screenshot of a functional shop that lets you purchase a namechange and a ticket to create a guild (however that is also very WIP and might change, the prices are obviously just for testing):
    [​IMG]

    I think the community management is something very subjective and you might see it from another perspective but the reason why we have the forums and discord is because we want to communicate and not because we want feedback to end up in the void. We read feedback and try to consider it, discuss it internally and evaluate if it should be implemented/changed and we dont do what we want.

    I wouldnt say its impossible but probably not really realistic, however like I previously mentioned the early access section is still bit outdated because it takes time to upkeep it regularly and we dont always remember to do it. The planned full release was just a wrong estimate and there was no intention to bait anyone or anything similar. If a game is still in early access and you dont want to support it, then you wouldnt buy it so it is bad in either way and there is no reason for us to make up fake deadlines that are sooner than we originally think.

    Let me know if I missed any point or if something wasnt clear
     
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  5. Xarku

    Xarku Member

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    First of all, I accuse you of lies and misinformation cos those were the only possible options. I've read your answer and it's, again, a word-salad that basically agrees with what I said in my post, but you play with the words so it looks like you said something different.

    So, basically, those 3 things are in standby (one of them isn't even in the to-do list) but they are still there baiting possible new buyers.

    This is not subjective at all. Just name 2 changes driven or suggested by the community in the past 6 months. Or better, name 2 changes that you implemented and weren't liked by the community that were removed. Every elaborated feedback that crashed with your personal ideas was never took into consideration. You have a letter signed by the highest elo players and you pretty must ignored its content.

    See? The rest of this paragraph is a word-salad. It's not realistic, it's not doable, then remove it from that page. You added stuff, you can remove stuff. Same with the enchantments, the shop, the guilds, the community feedback and all.

    P.S. I just want to remember you that those features that are being discussed here (enchantments, shop, guilds) are planned to be done before full release. So, again, in 4-5 months.
     
  6. Bluejin

    Bluejin Member

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    What's the point of kicking the dog when it's already down?
    [​IMG]
     
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  7. GvR Mr Mister

    GvR Mr Mister Member

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    communicating != blind following a bunch of people
     
  8. Xarku

    Xarku Member

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    Yeah, I agree with you, but I don't know what does it have to do with the topic in discussion.

    Maybe by just doing 10% of the exposed in that feedback they would have managed to get more than the current 108 players online. Who knows.
     
  9. Seraphin

    Seraphin Member

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    I won't even try to give a structured and well commented answer to this post. I'm just really disapointed by your thread @Xarku . For someone who spend thousands hours in the game (which is really worth regaring money you spent) I'm just upset to see how you can be unfair, agressive toward Devs !!

    Particularly, I don't understand how you can accuse Jules, Lisk, Dani and Curing to lie when they obviously don't lie and when you obviously give a really wrong understanding to those information.
    They obviously didn't rewrite some information because they forgot or they didn't have time.

    Really sad to see those kind of messages and really disapointed... :'( :'(
     
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  10. Xarku

    Xarku Member

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    Well you can't be serious. You can't really think that people are dumb enough to think that the devs edited just the parts that make them look better "because they forgot" or "because they didn't have time". I could even add to this how they removed negative votes in the discord server, since it follows the same logic and it's shady in the same way.

    The rest of your post has nothing to do with the exposed here so I'll just ignore it. But you playing that card won't work on me. Stay to the discussed.
     
  11. GvR Mr Mister

    GvR Mr Mister Member

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    If you want to reach people, you should rethink the way you talk to them ;)
     
  12. Seraphin

    Seraphin Member

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    Of course I'm serious Xarku. For all your points, I could give example to prove how wrong you are...
    The real problem you have is you don't accept to wait more to get those features and you cannot accept that they don't always do ALL changes that SOME TOP ELO PLAYERS want.
    I could understand this point of view if you were not as much agressive as you are with this thread. With this reaction, you just encourage Devs to not communicate anymore with players...

    I will let Jules or Lisk trying to answer you even if I'm pretty sure it will be useless since it seems you have a grudge against Devs...
     
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  13. Xarku

    Xarku Member

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    So yeah, let's imagine that you are right and only a few top elo players didn't like the changes (you said all the changes, which is again a straw man, but let's ignore it). How is it that the game has its worst numbers and can't even peak above 200 players anymore? What is the excuse for this? How is that the next tournament has managed to only reunite 8 players? What is the excuse for this? How is it that there isn't a high elo playerbase anymore? What is the excuse for this?

    So yeah, I've been being polite and nice for months, but that finished recently, since I've been given the same amount of respect. Deal with it or leave the thread, but don't try to make it personal and just state to the facts discussed here.


    Yeah, that has been proven to work the previous times I did it. Facts are facts and the message is the message. I'm tired of being polite, and it's not like I have insulted a single person. If you have problems understanding any of my points, I will be glad to rephrase em.
     
  14. Seraphin

    Seraphin Member

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    You will have to show me where devs or anyone disrespect you. You will have also to show me where people were not polite with you.
    If you can prove me that you were not respected, I could accept your behavior (even if this is the worst way to express your feeling!!!)

    I don't take it personaly and particularly, I refer to the facts. You have your understanding to all communications and actions done by Devs. That's not necessary to right way.

    Okay. So for you it is useless to mention that we are in summer ? It is useless to point out Teamfight Tactics developped by Riot Games? It is useless to say that when you have some people who criticize the patch without even trying it, it could repel others ?


    As I said, it seems you have a grudge against the game, the Devs and I guess against some players when I see your behavior and your reactions....
     
  15. Xarku

    Xarku Member

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    Man, anyone who thinks like that really needs to exit some echo chambers and rethink if it really makes any sense at all.

    People play more in summer, this is easily checkable in every game with a solid playerbase, where their* numbers increase in summer.

    Teamfight Tactics has nothing to do with Legion TD 2. It's like saying that basketball is stealing players from football. They are separate games with a small aspect in common (the ball in my example).

    Your third point is so ridiculous that I won't even address it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  16. ithion

    ithion Member

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    Well, it was summer a year ago as well (chocked pikachu face). They haven't beaten those player numbers since. This summer, with a years worth of developement they are down more than 66%. Lost more than 2/3rd of the peak, and average player numbers are down just as much.

    So the fact that they reach all time low during the summer should make them, and you MORE concerned than if this had happened when people go back to work/school.

    If you still don't get it: The summer is when they have the best chance of reaching high player counts and NOT a factor that explains why they are so low.
     
  17. Xarku

    Xarku Member

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    Also, it's funny how you are asking me of proofs about the devs disrespecting me, but not long ago they PERMABANNED a player for the same reason and you didn't ask for a single proof. Funny at the least, @Seraphin ;)
     
  18. Seraphin

    Seraphin Member

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    @ithion I do believe during summer people are not necessary more available to play the game. But, you're right, summer does not explain itself why about 300 players sumultanuously we have now about 100 players sumultanuously. Obviously the patch is not very well appreciated. But I'm also sure people didn't give any chance and particularly after they saw 50% high elo players angry toward this patch.

    @Xarku , I guess we don't have the same definition of disrespect...I won't discuss about this topic here since there is another thread about it. What's more I have already gave my opinion about this.
    Definitively, I cannot accept your behavior and your agression, particularly toward me. I never disrespect you and still I can see a lot of disrespect in your message...
    Before talking, you should look at yourself. Thank you.
     
  19. Xarku

    Xarku Member

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    @Seraphin So, since you can't stay to the topic in discussion cos you can't even defend your point, you deviate it, then get offended by the new path you have taken and then you leave the discussion. Brilliant. And I'm not even talking about how you defend that the low elo players, who won't even hear about our complains, are not playing because of us. Again, brilliant.
     
  20. Bluejin

    Bluejin Member

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    Get real please. Why would any of that impact how many people play the game? Obviously we're all busy preparing for our raid on area 51.