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Update #51: New legion + 2v2 + Growing the playerbase!

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Jules, Mar 13, 2018.

  1. SiegeMentality

    SiegeMentality Member

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    I'm on board with most of this, but think that casual should stay 4v4. That will give something to those that prefer to trio / quad to queue for and play.
     
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  2. Prosock

    Prosock Member

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    Im just still trying to process this change, just sad about the two new RL friends that I got into purchasing the game, now we cant even play together, aside from custom games, where we would have to find some randoms to play us, a great way for me to introduce them to the game......
     
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  3. Dundergrabben

    Dundergrabben Member

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    this
     
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  4. EinfachManuel

    EinfachManuel Member

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    Not sure what i should think about 2v2
    I never played 2v2 yet so i cant write much about it, but i realy liked that it was 4v4.
    But im pretty sure 2v2 will improve Matchmaking. Have to test it :)
    Thats also a buff for mastermind i'd say. In 2v2 its not that smart to pick a legion like grove because it will make us weaker on specific waves like 13 or 15.

    New Legion is pure hype! cant wait to see it
     
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  5. Edward Elric

    Edward Elric Member

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    I have 40 hours clocked on steam for this game so far, and I've only played 2v2. So this update is just amazing for me and my friend, it will make winning games just that much easier. XD Honestly though I've only had 1 issue with people not wanting to cooperate and those 2 were very toxic 700 elo trolls.
     
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  6. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    1. I'm assuming quo means duo (correct me if I'm wrong). Yes, duoing will still be allowed.
    2. Yes, the duo penalty will be increased. The matchmaker will assume that a 1400+1200 duo is roughly equal to two solo 1370 players. In other words, it assumes a 1400+1200 duo has a 60% win rate against two solo 1300s, which translates to a +19/-13 game for the solos. We track data on how parties perform against solos, and if we need to adjust the duo penalty more, we will.
    3. I will adamantly continue to call it dual building because it's different than cross, and I think people are permanently scarred by the word "cross." :p We're going to approach dual building balance iteratively. We don't want the big 2v2 change to be about dual building, since it has a tendency of dominating perception/discussion.
    4. Queues should be faster and matches should be fairer. We are adjusting the matchmaking settings to be stricter. For 99.7% of players, we can guarantee you will be matched with players within 200 rating of you, and most of the time, within 0-100 rating of you. For players rated over 2000, we can guarantee you will be matched with 1800+ players. High-rated games will also be possible at any time, not just during peak hours. This is significantly better than what we have currently.
    5. I think a lot of the accessibility improvements have to be done on our end, but guides are also always helpful.
    6. I still think Mastermind will be strong. The goal is for Mastermind to continue to be strong/viable, especially for high-rated players. Will balance and change things as needed.
    7. Adaptation
    8. Probably, yes, but it's hard to say exactly. Will balance as needed.
     
  7. ThiagoLA92

    ThiagoLA92 Member

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    6 friends of mine have legion td, we bought to play together...
    As the post about 2v2 said "The mod was 4v4 because Lisk has two brothers and wanted to play with both of them", i also want to play with my friends...
     
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  8. Dundergrabben

    Dundergrabben Member

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    The OP clearly states that custom games will still have the option to go more than 2v2. It also states that 4v4 might be added in the future again. Don't worry be happy :)
     
  9. Crazysheep

    Crazysheep Member

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    Great annoucement with Steam but i hope you dont cut the 4vs4 ranked mode. If the player base or some player feel like they want to play 4 vs 4 but have to wait like 15min+ to get into game maybe even 20min why not let them? I mean iam completly fine to wait 20min to play 4vs4 if i dont want to wait 20min i could go 2vs2. So pls dont cut the 4 vs 4 queue and just do 2 queues. I mean every player sees the astimated waiting time so let the player decide what he wants to play :((
     
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  10. SiegeMentality

    SiegeMentality Member

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    MM already receives a bonus. Now the new units will be MM only. What incentive is there to play any of the regular legions? I'm going to get +1 income, the possibility of creating several aoe builds with high worker output, and some new units to tinker with. Grove and elemental will always receive a little love because of their stability, but why would I choose those legions over MM after this patch?

    And I'd really like it if you'd stop tailoring all these discussions around high rated players. Your high rated players are a small fraction of the player base. There's so many people crying about how we need fresh blood, and the game is dying, tears, tears, more tears... Yet, your text repeatedly tells me that you're really focused on your high end players.

    If a random person that loved Legion on WC3 / SC sees the advertisement pop up on Steam during the sale, what is your plan to not only lure them into purchasing the game, but retaining them to expand the player base?
     
  11. ThiagoLA92

    ThiagoLA92 Member

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    Yeah, but feel like they don't want to ballance 4v4 anymore
     
  12. ithion

    ithion Member

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    OMG YEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!
    beutifull insignia btw.

    2v2 ranked! maaaaarrrrrryyy meeee.

    this is AMAZING. WOW, YES JABADABADOOOO
     
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  13. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    I misspoke when I said “high-rated.” What I meant was competitive or long-term or non-casual. We do care about new players and lower-rated players (hence, why accessibility is our #1 priority right now). We also care about competitive players because it’s a competitive game. If the game were balanced around new players, the game would be unplayably bad for anyone with more than 50 games. Rather than balance the game around new players, we are working to make the game more friendly and accessible for them.

    The goal has always been for Mastermind to be the endgame choice for most competitive players. Legions were meant to be stepping stones to learn the game, but they are also viable. So we’ve found a sweet spot.
    We’ve been balancing the game as 4v4 this whole time, yet the only ongoing tournament right now is 2v2. I think that speaks to how the game’s strategy and balance is quite similar, whether you play 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, or 4v4.
     
  14. Robert Mends

    Robert Mends Member

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    Right now, Legion TD 2 is essentially 2v2 with a King shared with another 2v2 party. You don't really cooperate with teal or purple being red or influence pink or green in a very significant way. I believe many people enjoyed flaming and trolling their team and the opponents, and now their flaming and trolling will be less effective (less players) and more punished (you have to play the game and not flame now because of the new desicion making system).

    I embrace the change, I think it was a logical step into the right direction, I love the developers and every man on Earth, you are great people and I hope you do well!
     
  15. EinfachManuel

    EinfachManuel Member

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    its still 4v4 and not double 2v2. Think about sending. You dont send against the 2 on your site. You have to check all of them. With 4 People its harder to find a weak wave. Also its not that bad if you leak a little because there is 3 other people who could hold for you.

    And about the "Trolls".. I have around 500 Games right now and i once had a guy ragequitting and selling all the towers and thats it. Sure sometimes players make bad decisions but its not a troll if someone have a bad game.
    I see people blaming others for loosing so often and it allways tilts me. There is no way to get better mates. The only thing a player can improve is the own skill. Even if i was MVP and clearly the best player in my team im not mad about my teammates. I allways look on myself. How could i improve? What could i do better? Should i make more calls when im the highest rated player in my team? Stuff like this.
    Overall i'd say the community of ltd2 is the best i've seen so far. But i played 6 Years css / csgo and 7 years league of legends. So im used to bad manner
     
  16. TheRatedR

    TheRatedR Member

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    Problem i see with this is that casual should be (and mostly is ) the mode for newer players to get better into the game to be able to perform well in the normal queue afterwards.. if the casual would stay on 4 vs 4 and the normal queue is 2 vs 2 it would be even harder for new players to get ready for "ranked" play.

    I am personally really hyped for the changes :D
    ( but tbh i play 95 % of my games as a duo with my mate @Wadi94 so the change from 4vs4 to 2vs2 is probably the best that can happen for me :D )
     
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  17. EinfachManuel

    EinfachManuel Member

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    had the same thought.
    I think it should be just different. 2v2 for casual and 4v4 for ranked
     
  18. Thilitium

    Thilitium Member

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    HYPE !
    2v2 ! I did not expect that change, but I really much like it considering the actual playerbase. I'm 1300 ELO (yes that is low) but have around 100 games and sometimes fall with 700ELO players. That doesnt seems fair, especially when you have a party of 4 1250ELO against you. The 700ELO player usually leaks all his waves and quit the game. No matter how you hold after that, you will loose.

    There is always the option to have a 4v4 competitive queue after the playerbase expansion and you suggested it, so that's fine. The game should be fun to play in any case, not frustrating as some games have been to me. Maybe, when you play a casual game, you should simply give the choice between 2v2 and 4v4, simple as that. This will give people who want to play with friends an option. They all said that they do not care about queue times, so that solves the problem for me.
    After all, introducing new players to the game souldn't be done on a ranked competitive queue. And that aspect tilted me so hard when matchmaking, making ELO climb from 1200 to 1400 a nightmare where most of the times you HAVE to income send in order to grow you value quickly to catch the leaks (refer to the beginning of my post). Also, parties of 3 ignoring your calls and going their own way without communicating, or making bad calls without me having any say in it. This will disappear now. Perfect.

    Also, as I only have this much games played, I always struggle trying to estimate fighter values of the 4 enemy lanes and finding weaknesses of every opponent to know on which wave to send and trying to make the right call. This should be much more easier with 2 lanes, making it much more fun, and again, less frustrating. Same goes for other teammates. Finding your team weaknesses takes a lot of time when you're not used to it, and that does make for less decision-making when you are trying to play well. I often forget to send my last mercenaries before the wave, because I am still building last second, because I was trying to analyse the situation well. This was really frustrating.

    And also. 5TH LEGION !
    These two announcements will surely get me back into the game, which I didn't play this much lately.
    Thanks Jules & Lisk.
     
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  19. foliesseer

    foliesseer Member

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    I think 2v2 should only be for rankeds, and 4v4 should be in casual and bot queues. Other than that, good changes. I am also very hyped for the new Legion :D .
     
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  20. Myrmiron

    Myrmiron Member

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    Very interesting.
    I suspect this will make Mastermind even harder to play since if you're only 2 it'll be harder to cover all your bases with randomized units. Not sure if this is in your best interest.
    I've got a feeling that Element + X will become meta (with Element + Grove likely having the highest winrate) since Element is so good at covering the other legion's weaknesses.
    I don't see Forsaken being popular though.