v1.75

Discussion in 'Patch Notes' started by Jules, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    By that logic, we should just have 2 classes of champions: DPS units with 1 health and tank units with 0 damage.

    Units can be better designed by being less extreme. Nightmare and Doppelganger were so extreme that "battle RNG" was often the primary factor in whether or not you cleared the wave. If Nightmare is targetted last, you clear. If Nightmare is targetted early (even when you position it in the back), you leak everything. That's not good design.

    Just because Nightmare and Doppelganger received health buffs does not remove their identity as DPS units. Let's compare some units:
    • Nightmare: 0.69 DPS/gold
    • Zeus: 0.51 DPS/gold
    • Berserker: 0.41 DPS/gold, 0.55 DPS/gold against bosses
    • Mudman: 0.27 DPS/gold
    Nightmare is still far-and-away the premier melee single-target DPS unit in the game.

    Hope that clarifies our reasoning behind the changes.
     
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  2. Akitos

    Akitos Member

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    @Jules just for clarification: the +-400 elo range that you can get matched with also applies to solo que, right? Because you're talking about "party" the entire time.
     
  3. Akitos

    Akitos Member

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    NOOOOOOOO. I liked the +-400 soooo much :( Now 2k+ players can still get matched with 1,5k elos. FeelsBadMan.

    Btw, does that take into consideration party avg, or the players? Like, can you get matched with a 2k elo dueing with a 1k elo? I'd fucking hate that xD I really hope it's talking about individual players.
     
  4. Dundergrabben

    Dundergrabben Member

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    parties =/= individual players
     
  5. Blasti

    Blasti Member

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    This is an interesting patch, but the wave 20 buff was not needed at all, that wave is annoying enough as it is, with the bounce attack he does, that dmg boost is gonna be insane and it's gonna be unstoppable

    Other then that it seems fine, i like the mudman buff, Mudmans for Life!
     
  6. LeifOneG

    LeifOneG Member

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    As a software engineer and a long time Legion TD Player the one thing that has bugged me the most is this -20% . Im sorry but why change a intellectual challenging aspect of the game to a braindead send/save meta. I can buy that you wanted to try it but its not competitive anymore. Please tell that guy Lisk to implement it in the casual que games as a dialog option or something.

    Otherwise i feel that the game is going in the right direction. Hopefully we will see the 5th legion soon?

    Cheers!
     
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  7. Bluejin

    Bluejin Member

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    Yeah, I get that. I just loved Nightmare as an "extreme" in the unit spectrum as complete glass cannon and disliked how that extreme was mellowed out. And I still stand by my opinion that such extremes should exist and dps buff would have been better.

    And I'd argue that even with all the health buffs to Nm/Doppel, the Dm change was still a hard nerf for Forsaken, especially late. Early game it doesn't change too much, but as soon as you get a Doppel, you lose 400 damage during the first 7 seconds and new doppel has also 15 dps less (5 fatality stacks less) after these initial 7 seconds. That stacks up quite a bit. And yeah, in some rare cases, the 200 extra health may save you the game, but in general the feeling of "if something looks at your doppel, it dies and you leak" hasn't changed with the 200 extra health.

    As for your DPS/gold comparison, I never argued that the new Nm was not a dps unit, and your numbers confirm that. Not even sure why Mudman is on there.
    But Zeus has the distinct advantage that it can basically attack from a screen away, so it's pretty much guaranteed dps that will die last (Yeah, I had to state the obvious, yet again.).
    As for Fatalizer vs Doppelgänger : Dps / gold : 0.52(0.65 vs bosses) vs 0.46 (initial) / 0.58 (after 7 seconds without DM), but Fatalizer has around 7.5 hp/gold while doppel has 4.9. One has way more damage potential while the other is way more durable.

    I didn't even really want to compare them, just stating that glass cannon doppel felt stronger for me at least, because that initial burst of damage and the high damage potential was really valuable.

    PS : Probably better to ingore posts where I use multiple '?'/'!' at the end of a sentence, sure sign I'm in an emotionally unstable state :D
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  8. Nacccho

    Nacccho Member

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    Yea, you guys definetely over did it with the bone warrior nerf.

    They already had enough draw backs if you invested to many value on it early. The later waves buff was already an indirect nerf.

    And just remove the fire archers from the 6 counter tutorial, thats not the case anymore on this patch.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  9. fonte

    fonte Member

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    ty for the changes, another big patch :3
     
  10. igeldusch

    igeldusch Member

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    Are people so shit at the game that devs need to write down a guide vs a certain lane in their patch notes?! Did I miss something?
     
  11. GvR Mr Mister

    GvR Mr Mister Member

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    Yes. We also had this for drake at 5, or?
     
  12. FaithOfHeaven

    FaithOfHeaven Member

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    (11) Quill Shooters [​IMG]
    - Damage: 66 -> 68

    Why did you boost 11? It's like impossible to hold this round since you decided to lower the mercenary costs. You need at least 1700+ value to hold this. Even when you stay at 5 workers you can't hold this. We'll see how it goes I guess... (I predict a nerf for 11 in future patch)
     
  13. Lisk

    Lisk Director Staff Member

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    v1.75b is live with a few matchmaking tweaks and fixes.
     
  14. swordfightingguy

    swordfightingguy Member

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    There's no way you leak that much wave 11 with 1.7k and 5 workers if you play specific race.
     
  15. Crazysheep

    Crazysheep Member

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    At higher elo a lot of games end on 18 u just need to know what to send....and if they save from lvl 1 to 6 u should just income sends or crush them on 5 because they have no value
     
  16. SiegeMentality

    SiegeMentality Member

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    Can the higher elo people just try and understand that 1200 - 1500 will always exist? It's always going to be there. It's not going away. Your responses to issues in the lower elo meta is always... "It's not like that here."

    That doesn't help anyone.
     
  17. Crazysheep

    Crazysheep Member

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    Well 18 is crap on low elo because on low elo you do send every wave so u get really really big fighter values. Even if you would push 18 by 30% it wouldnt change anything. You cant buff a wave just for some elos. You need to balance the game for all elos. And btw

    - 2000+ parties cannot match with parties rated 1600 or lower

    best patch notes ever <3
     
  18. SiegeMentality

    SiegeMentality Member

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    Now we're getting somewhere. Yes, at the lower elo 18 and 19 is easymode. Then 20 comes and grove and non-Hades forsaken falls over dead.

    20 needs some tweaking now...
     
  19. Lyrcay

    Lyrcay Member

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    the most balanced game come from high level data.
    That's because they push the game to its limit, they tried countless ways to "abuse" the system to win the game by doing the most efficient thing to do.
    Balancing game from low elo open the way to even more unbalanced situations and the main reason to that is because low elo play like monkeys.
    Taking notes from attack/armor efficency in low elo is not a common thing, added to that the "maths" from send received, the wave length and when to push a worker or not result in a possible cheese wave, wich is 6.
    It's the reason why devs even tried to help by posting how to counter that cheese. It's a cheese, it's meant to punish if you dont pay attention but nowadays i thinks it's easier to blame the unbalance instead of improving.
    "It's not like that here" because we see it comming from so far, especially because you dont have a lot of workers early so taking 120/180 myth in the face w6 is prepared.
    What do you want ? A system message who tell you "warning, you didnt received send since x waves, estimated myth saved xxx, dont push worker, we suggest to build x" ?
    A game should not be leveled from below, especially a versus game

    Edit: btw f10 and f11 panels should be always on, it helped me a lot when i started the game. I didnt know they exist until i clicked everywhere to see what that thing do.
    I suppose most of low elo never used it because they dont know it exist and could help them
    i do a lot of shitbuild in casual (farming cards by building only consords, or zeus, etc) and i see a lot of players overbuilding for no reason, and sending shit too, cant really tell if they dont know or if they are bad, or both, but if they want to improve, panels will help them a lot.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  20. SiegeMentality

    SiegeMentality Member

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    ... What?

    What does the whole wave six cheese strat have to do with the fact that lower elo has a faster meta which brings many games to 20? What? Please connect those dots for me.

    1. The post you responded to said that 20 is too hard now.
    2. You responded by saying that high elo doesn't see 20

    Does that mean that 20 is balanced? Because you don't 20 anymore. That is the response you want to give?

    "Screw you monkeys, I don't care about balance on waves me and my kind never see."