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v2.24 & New Unit

Discussion in 'Patch Notes' started by Jules, May 22, 2018.

  1. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    2018_0511_T4_wave2.jpg

    We’re hard at work making a full-fledged tutorial and varying bot difficulties to help players learn the game and have a better experience. The next two Atlantean fighters (6 units total) are fully designed and currently being modeled.

    v2.24a Patch Notes
    Deployed 2018.5.25 10:55 am PDT (6:55 pm CET)

    Legion Spells


    Dark Ritual
    - Damage to king: 25% -> 20%

    Atlantean

    Ocean Templar
    - Resonance: 15 + 0.2% max health regeneration -> 20 + 0.25% max health regeneration
    - Fixed a bug where Resonance was regenerating Wileshrooms/Canopies at night

    Mercenaries

    (14) Shaman
    - Damage: 110 -> 105

    Waves

    (14) Killer Slugs
    - Health: 1950 -> 2000

    (15) Quadrapuses

    - Giant Quadrapus: Health: 8900 -> 8800
    - Quadrapus: Health: 2250 -> 2200
    - Quadrapus: Range: 250 -> 200



    v2.24 Patch Notes
    Deployed 2018.5.22 2:25 pm PDT (10:25 pm CET)


    NEW! Atlantean fighter

    oceantemplarcard.png

    Ocean Templar (T4U)

    - Upgrade Cost: 250 gold + 1 supply
    - Health: 2250 (Natural)
    - Damage: 175 (Magic)
    - Attack speed (attacks per second): 0.83
    - Range: 400
    - delicacy_small.png Ability: Delicacy - May be sold for 90% of its total cost, decreasing by 10% each wave until 60%
    - Resonance.png Ability: Resonance - Grants 15 + 0.2% max health regeneration to adjacently-deployed allies

    via Sketchfab


    Game Balance

    Pathing & Targeting
    - Units now prioritize enemy units in range in the order that they were first attacked. You can use this to better control which fighters are focused (e.g. not having Berserker focused before Veteran)

    Legion Spells

    Overwork.png
    NEW! Overwork
    - Your workers gain mythium 175% as fast this wave, but 75% as fast next wave

    DarkRitual.png
    Dark Ritual green_arrow.png
    - Fixed a bug that caused it to trigger pillage gold (this is a significant buff)
    - Fixed a bug where it sometimes didn't damage the right amount (it now damages instantly instead of over time)
    - New icon

    Savior
    - Fixed a bug where it sometimes didn't heal the right amount (it now heals instantly instead of over time)

    Projectile speeds

    - Most ranged units now have faster projectile speeds, which will result in fewer wasted attacks

    Mastermind.png
    Mastermind
    - Now guaranteed to not have 4x T1s or 4x T6s
    - Fixed a bug where T4/T5 units were slightly rarer than they should have been

    Atlantean.png
    Atlantean

    King Claw red_arrow.png
    - Shell Shock: Damage: 100 -> 80

    Element.png
    Element

    Violet green_arrow.png
    - Health: 2000 -> 2040

    Fenix green_arrow.png red_arrow.png
    - Damage: 238 -> 280
    - Overheat: 1% bonus damage for each 1% missing mana -> 1% bonus damage for each 2% missing mana

    Fenix is still optimal when used as an off-tank, but is now more viable as backline DPS and less reliant on using mana

    Forsaken.png
    Forsaken

    Gateguard green_arrow.png red_arrow.png
    - Chaos Hound: Health: 330 -> 300
    - Chaos Hound: Damage: 22 -> 24

    Harbinger green_arrow.png red_arrow.png
    - Health: 1700 -> 1720
    - Damage: 97 -> 98
    - Cerberus: Health: 990 -> 900
    - Cerberus: Damage: 66 -> 72

    Doppelganger green_arrow.png red_arrow.png
    - DPS: 214 -> 232
    -- Damage: 79 -> 130
    -- Attack speed (attacks per second): 2.7 -> 1.79
    - Fatality: Bonus damage per attack: 1 -> 2

    Less insane synergy with Butcher and Head Chef, but stronger on its own

    Lord of Death green_arrow.png red_arrow.png
    - Undead Dragon: Health: 950 -> 900
    - Undead Dragon: Damage: 89 -> 90

    Hades red_arrow.png
    - Raise Imp: Mana cost: 13 -> 14

    Mech.png
    Mech

    Peewee red_arrow.png
    - Booster: Attack speed bonus: 120% -> 115%

    Veteran red_arrow.png
    - Stimpack: Attack speed bonus: 120% -> 115%

    Zeus green_arrow.png
    - Attack speed (attacks per second): 2.94 -> 3

    Tempest green_arrow.png
    - Attack speed (attacks per second): 1.3 -> 1.32

    Millennium green_arrow.png
    - Attack speed (attacks per second): 0.406 -> 0.412

    Doomsday Machine green_arrow.png
    - Attack speed (attacks per second): 0.406 -> 0.412

    We have a new ability for Millennium/Doomsday Machine designed, but it’s tricky to implement, so we’re holding off for this patch and just giving them a small buff.

    Mercenaries

    Four Eyes green_arrow.png
    - Attack speed (attacks per second): 1.19 -> 1.22

    Shaman green_arrow.png red_arrow.png
    - Damage: 115 -> 110
    - Range: 400 -> 450

    This change makes Shaman get focused after Giant Quadrapus (see change below)

    Waves

    (10) Granddaddy
    - Bounty gold is now based on % missing life + an additional 20 gold for not leaking
    - This makes leaking the boss with low life less punishing and leaking the boss with high life more punishing (breakeven point is at 37% health)

    The goal behind these changes is to reduce RNG and risk aversion. You now have more control over which fighters are focused by Granddaddy, and you are no longer overly punished when you leak the boss with a sliver of health.

    (15) Quadrapuses green_arrow.png red_arrow.png
    - Giant Quadrapus now spawns behind Quadrapuses
    - Giant Quadrapus: Range: 250 -> 400
    - Movement type: Hovering -> Ground (they will no longer bunch up so much)

    You can no longer manipulate aggro on Giant Quadrapus with tank mercenaries
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2018
  2. foliesseer

    foliesseer Member

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    Jules balancing wave 15:
     
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  3. Nacccho

    Nacccho Member

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    Is the attack speed really everything there is to their synergy? I mean, it only makes a difference when the nightmare is low hp and barely hanging.

    How exactly do you have more control over which fighters are focused?

    Very interesting mechanic, super cool. But it feels a bit all in and lack luster, cause when the opponents use this, you already know they cant just do a skip. Maybe buffing a bit the myth gain, or nerfing the "slow". So we have just a small delta.
     
  4. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    I know it's fun to meme our balance changes, but here's the rationale for why wave 15's numbers weren't nerfed:

    It's situational and a bit more nuanced than this explanation, but in general:
    1. It's optimal to focus Giant Quadrapus last (after the Quadrapuses) because it has more health and the same health-DPS ratio. The only time this isn't true if you can only clear 99% of the wave and leave Giant Quadrapus at a sliver of life.
    2. Second best case (or sometimes best case) is focusing Giant Quadrapus first.
    3. Worst case scenario is having some of your fighters focus Giant Quadrapus half-way through the battle.
    In the old times, Giant Quadrapus spawned in the middle of the wave, which means that case #3 usually happened. After we made the change to make Giant Quadrapus spawn in front, that meant case #2 happened, which is significantly easier than case #3, so it was accompanied by some buffs. However, players realized that they could send Dinos and other tank mercenaries to push the Giant Quadrapus back, which resulted in case #3 again.

    With this new change, case #1 will generally happen, which is significantly easier than case #3. It's possible that the new synergy with Shaman is OP or the change from Hovering -> Ground makes wave 15 too strong (specifically against AoE units) or that wave 15 is just generally too strong, in which case, we'll nerf it. You don't have to agree, but that's our rationale.

    Head Chef's Cannibalism has +10 life on-hit, which is incredibly powerful with fast-attacking units. That's the synergy we're trying to reduce.

    The clearest example is on wave 10. You can clear it with 1 Fatalizer and a few Bone Warriors by placing the Bone Warriors in front. If the Bone Warriors attack Granddaddy first, Granddaddy will focus them first (rather than randomly deciding to focus your Fatalizer).

    I think Overwork has some really interesting use cases. Here are some examples:
    1. Overwork and send on 12
      • Pro: Massive send on 12
      • Con: Long wave 12 is detrimental
    2. Overwork and send on 11
      • Pro: Long wave 11 is beneficial
      • Con: Weaker version of Press the Attack on 11
    3. You Overwork and send on 12, and your ally Giant Snails or Presses the Attack and sends on 11
      • Pro: Long wave 11 is beneficial
      • Con: Sending on different wave than your ally
    If it becomes too much of an all-in mechanic, we'll make it something like 175%/75% instead of 200%/50%. We're doing some internal test right now to see how it feels.
     
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  5. Lisk

    Lisk Director Staff Member

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    Patch is live!
     
  6. Akitos

    Akitos Member

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    Can you go into detail please?
     
  7. foliesseer

    foliesseer Member

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    We had a discussion about Doppleganger on the Discord. I made a chart that compared the damage and healing of Doppleganger. You can visit the spreadsheet by clicking here.

    If you are unable to view it, here are the highlights:

    Buff: (Compared to the 'old' Doppleganger)
    New Dopple deals more damage in the first 45 seconds of the wave.

    Neutral:
    New dopple paired with Dark Mage is still stronger in the first 45 seconds of the wave.

    Nerfs: (Compared to the 'old' Doppleganger)
    Bundled with Head Chef,

    New Dopple heals 7 less HP/s at 10 seconds, 8 HP/s at 20 seconds, 10 HP/s at 30 seconds, etc.
    New Dopple heals 70 less HP in total at 10 seconds, 150 HP at 20 seconds, 240 HP at 30 seconds, etc.

    Bundled with Head Chef and Dark Mage,
    New Dopple heals 10 less HP/s at 10 seconds, 13 less HP/s at 20 seconds, 15 less HP/s at 30 seconds, etc.
    New Dopple heals 100 less HP in total at 10 seconds, 220 HP at 20 seconds, 365 HP at 30 seconds, etc.

    Conclusion
    Dopple as an individual unit got buffed, Dopple/Head Chef combo got nerfed.
     
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  8. Nacccho

    Nacccho Member

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    Ah, i missed the part about unit and targeting first.

    Yea, the wave 12 send is what i had in mind for the "main" focus of the spell.
    I think it's really cool, because it isn't just as symplistic as a flat ammount, it varies with worker count, wave durations, has income implications, which really opens room to skill to florish.
    Thing is, right now 11 sends are very rare, given the availability of defensive spells, so offensive spells mainly target 12 and 13. Overwork kinda changes that a little bit, because you have an upside to sending 11, but very likely it isn't lethal, and you're in a WORLD OF PAIN in case they send 12.
    Also, most of the times, separate sends after 10, or 11 sends, are game losing, because it's so detrimental on your sends before 15.

    The first line refers to nightmare and second to dopple? Or i don't understand this.
     
  9. Roshkatul

    Roshkatul Member

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    @Nacccho 1st line refers to healthpoints/second and the second one to total hp


    Btw, wave 15 is broken, as expected. And there are like no counter units to it, pyro is now completely trash after the change to ground
     
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  10. ViccieLeaks

    ViccieLeaks Member

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    Ya 15 needs a hotfix
     
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  11. ShoKsPare

    ShoKsPare Member

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    Revert Wave 15 pls
     
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  12. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    Aqua Spirit, Fire Elemental, Rogue Wave, Disciple, Starcaller, Fire Lord, Fenix, Fire Archer, Gargoyle, Lord of Death, Undead Dragon, Hades, Ranger, Daphne, Banana Bunk, Banana Haven, Pyro, Tempest, Leviathan, Millennium, Doomsday Machine, Lizard, Hermit, Drake, Four Eyes, Shaman, Kobra, Quill Shooter, Quadrapus, Dire Toad, and Maccabeus all had their projectile speeds increased by around 25%. Projectile speed buffs do have an effect on power, but it's usually a more of a "perception buff" (it makes the unit feel better) and a relatively small power buff. If any of these units become too strong, we'll nerf them.
    We'll nerf wave 15's stats a bit on Friday morning if needed after we have some more data. My best guess is that we'll end up nerfing it, but we'd rather be informed to know the amount we should nerf it by, rather than guessing.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2018
  13. HBK Alpha

    HBK Alpha Member

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    Do you guys even play this game? What kind of logic is putting the Quad boss in the back? Why not scorp while you are at it lol. Hire a better dev
     
  14. foliesseer

    foliesseer Member

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    As Roshkatul already said, the first line is Healing per Second and the second line is Healing in Total.

    Taking 30 seconds for an example, the old Dopple healed 90,7 HP per second and the new Dopple heals 80,7 HP per second. As you can probably see, the new Dopple heals 10 HP per second less.
    And at 30 seconds, the old Dopple healed 2245,5 HP in total and the new Dopple heals 2002,3 HP in total. This means that the new Dopple heals 245 HP less in total at 30 seconds.

    In my very own opinion, the healing in total doesn't matter that much but it allows us to calculate the healing lost over a period of time. The healing in total isn't very relevant in my opinion because the Doppleganger will generally not tank any damage until a few tanks died, and that's usually after at least 10-20 seconds have passed. And assuming the Dopple starts taking damage at 20 seconds, it heals ~760 HP compared to the old Dopple's ~860 HP. That 100 HP difference probably matters alot more than what is lost during the first 10-20 seconds, where the lifesteal is not utilized.

    If this is a bit confusing, I'll sum it up for you.
    Since the Doppleganger usually does not take any damage during the first 10-20 seconds of the wave, the healing done in total does not matter during that period. It only matters when the Dopple is taking damage. This does not mean that this is not a big nerf, it still is.

    It is nice to see that you are at least looking into the issue. I do respect your reasoning of changing it (because split aggro on the mini-boss and the small creeps), but you really should've just nerfed the Giant Quadrapus' damage. Not only that, you reduced the overall effectiveness of AoE on this wave by making the units ground instead of hovering, while all AoE damage is Magic. And the wave has more consistent DPS now because of the projectile speed changes. I mean, 15 has gotten so much indirect buffs this patch that it was no suprise for anybody that 15 would be broken.

    Hehe, did you guys just lose at wave 15? :D

    Jules' reasoning is valid, but he just missed out on a few points in my opinion. And it's probably getting reverted or changed anyway, so I guess patience is key.
     
  15. jitsuc4

    jitsuc4 Moderator

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    While wave 15 is certainly a lot stronger and harder to kill, keep it mind that people mostly still use their old builds/positioning. It's not unusual for builds to change after a big change. Might take a couple of days till new builds emerge, but let's see.

    Regarding your explanation: You're kinda disregarding the fact that you'll lose units and thus a huge chunk of your dps, so you might not have the necessary power to kill the mini boss last. Especially buffed by a shaman it can snipe your high dps units from behind quite fast. If you kill it first with full force, both the wave and your units will gradually fall off in power. But it depends heavily on the build as well, I suppose.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2018
  16. deutscherhawk

    deutscherhawk Moderator

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    Jules has already provided the rationale behind the change. Changing HP and DPS is a really easy change to make compared with other aspects of balancing (like where miniboss spawns....)
     
  17. jqob

    jqob Member

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    Ocean templar is too weak imo. Same DPS as king claw, 50% hp of king claw, worse ability than king claw. The only good thing about it is it's magic attack type. I don't see a reason to build it tho.
     
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  18. Nacccho

    Nacccho Member

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    I think it just needs to be cheaper, but WAY cheaper.
     
  19. Atze-Peng

    Atze-Peng Member

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    You missed an important element in this scenario, though. Statistics are all great, etc- but you need to put them into useful context. While the Giant Qaudrapus has the same HP/DPS-ratio, it still is stronger, because the DPS are focused on a single unit. The small guys can have a split damage output and thus as a player you can spread the damage.

    That's why it was always important to be able to focus the boss fast, because the damage split afterwards helped you soak up the overall DPS.
     
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  20. Nacccho

    Nacccho Member

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    Yea, now you usually cleanup everything, and you're left with like 2-3 ranged dps units, against a full-yolo megasaur big d*ck quadrupus, that 2 shot kills everything thats not a tank.