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v2.34: Priestess of the Abyss, Azeria, Atlantean Release

Discussion in 'Patch Notes' started by Jules, Aug 6, 2018.

  1. Nacccho

    Nacccho Member

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    I think it's almost there. I think it's weakish without grarl support, and "abbusive" with it. Because either you go for a very starved playstyle against it, or it ramps up harder than anything else.

    Used to be what i went for, but its kinda easy to hold with peewees or deepcoilers, or whatever, cause people kind of expect gk 8 already.

    Yea this works, but like countering something preemptively is pretty random tbh.
    ~~
    Will try with the 6 and 7 sends, thanks!

    ~~

    Is the win rate 50% with grarl in your roll?
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
  2. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    I think it's debatable whether Eggsack is specifically strong with Grarl. Most of the time I've used Hydra it's been with Pierce/Arcane fighters like Aqua Spirit and Peewee to cover Hydra's weak waves. With Mastermind, I personally don't take Eggsack when I take Grarl because I don't like having two Impact/Natural fighters.

    50% in lower-rated games, 49% in higher-rated games
     
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  3. Nacccho

    Nacccho Member

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    Yea, so thats why i said the OP pick is with hydras or peewees.

    But if you don't get grarl, you dont get the start, and than its all fine.
     
  4. xper

    xper Member

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    Attached Files:

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  5. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    Thanks for attaching it, though I'm having trouble opening your file. It says "nozip.zip," which looks strange to me. Let me know if you're able to zip it in another way. 7-Zip is a free tool.
     
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  6. Rave

    Rave Member

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    I think he just renamed the file, you can rename the ".nozip.zip" part to ".html" and it will open.
     
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  7. Nacccho

    Nacccho Member

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    Yea, hydra start just not cut it for me i this obligatory starving mode that sets you into. Sometimes its ok, but if the "sending order" is favorable to the hydra player it's just dumb.
    I legit won everytime i got it.
     
  8. Seraphon

    Seraphon Member

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    I think wave 12 deserve a little buff. Like 1 or 2 more damage on hit something like this. That's not huge but I think at the moment the wave is a bit too weak compare to wave 11, 13 and 14. This is probably due to best starters which are very good against this wave.

    Also, I think some mercenaries deserve a little buff :
    - Mimic: it's pretty hard to find a good way to use mimic. Maybe increase its damage or its hp could be interesting.
    - Would like to see hermit has a HP regen in %max HP rather than something fix. Like 1% for normal creep and 0,5% for boss or 5 HP + 0,2% max HP. Like this, it will be maybe useful in late game. I would do that for Safety mole and Pack leader since at the moment, after wave 16, usually you don't want to send those mercenaries since it's not particularly useful.
    - Kraken should be rework if I understood well. Cannot wait the rework ^^.

    More mercenaries would be really appreciated :D :D :D

    I think also Bone crusher should get a nerf : The best way here, I think, is to increase his cost like +5 or +10 gold which should not permit people to hard push workers very early.
     
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  9. foliesseer

    foliesseer Member

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    Definitely disagree on this one, it's a cheap Centaur since it deals really well with small units and it's also pretty good against units like Berserker/Fatalizer or Nightmare, and being the mercenary you want to send on 10 and 13 instead of a Pack Leader. I understand that most players (including myself) never send a mimic in some games while we send Pack Leaders and Safety Moles like three times, however Mimic is still pretty good in fulfilling its niche and definitely does not need straight up buffs :p.
     
  10. Seraphon

    Seraphon Member

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    It's my turn to disagree with you :p I think wave 10, you will prefer to send 2-3 brutes against berserker/fatalizer rather than mimic particularly because mimic is arcane defense. On wave 13, That's more or less the same thing. You will prefer to send 4 eye + brutes rather than mimic + brutes. Why? Because usually 4 eye is more worth than mimic since 4 eye will deal strong damage to a lot of units (Magic damage is bad only against Arcane defense). So finally, you will prob use mimic in early game like wave 7 or 9 in some situations but that's really rare I think. Anyways, I think it should be stronger for 160 mythium.
     
  11. foliesseer

    foliesseer Member

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    What? Wouldn't you rather send a Mimic Brute to cancel out the ability of Berserker/Fata? Not even disagreeing with you here, if my opponent has Fatalizer then I don't think a Mimic will kill it in time.
    Again, not disagreeing and you might want to say the same for Fenix. I rather send a 4E with 1/2 Liz against Fenix against Fenix instead of double Mimic since 4E is better against dealing with bigger units.

    I think you understood my post wrong. I never meant to say that Mimic was the best unit to send against Berserker/Fatalizer on 10 and 13. I meant it as "You don't want to send a Pack Leader on 10/13 but a Mimic instead" and "Mimics are good against unit spam and also pretty good against Berserker/Fatalizer or Nightmare".
    Pretty sure that Mimic almost always gets beaten by Pack Leader in terms of DPS and HP, and the Mimic being single-target doesn't really make up for it. It's only really effective on a wave like 9 if the opponent relies on stalling the wave with a split and you need to tear through the tank unit in that split. That's why I think you should only send it on 5, 6, 10 and 13. These are waves that have the least synergy with Pack Leader and these waves are also melee, so the mimic doesn't take aggro. And if the player has 240 mythium avaible, then yeah he might want to send a Four-Eyes instead.

    And even not taking this in consideration, Mimic is still a very decent "mini-"Centaur for 160 mythium. Even though it has pierce, it does very well against T1's and some T2's like Aqua and its upgrades or Ranger/Daphe if not focused. And again, just because the unit doesn't see play since it fulfills a niche doesn't mean that it needs to be buffed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
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  12. Seraphon

    Seraphon Member

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    Well, I don't agree with you since wave 5-6 it's almost impossible to get a mimic except if first waves are very long and you can save for a long time. Wave 10 as I said, I think most case you prefer to have brute rather than a mimic since you prefer a berserker who does not hit rather than a berserker who dies a bit faster. Also, if your mimic focus a tank with natural or fortified defense, it is almost useless. So you could spend 160 mythium for nothing basically. That's why you prefer brute. For 13 again, usually at this moment, you will have enough for a 4 eyes + 120 to 200 mythium. So you will prob prefer to take 4 eye + 2-3 brute in most cases. The only way you could prefer a mimic is if your opponents spammed T1-T2. But if it is, you will get a centaur.

    Where do you see a "mini" centaur ? XD No AoE damage, not very tanky and except magic damage, take a lot of damage from a lot of sources. That's absolutely not a centaur. That's a high damage fighter just that. I agree this is pretty strong against most T2. But usually, T2 can be killed by a mimic in early game (before wave 11). So still not very interesting in mid/late game.

    So as I said, at the moment, I really think mimic is used in really rare situation. Most time, you will prefer another mercenary. I still don't by it should bee interesting in late game to just send aura + very big mercenaries (240+ cost) and in early only small unit. I mean, drake and mimic should be usefull in late game and not only in early game. That's my opinion. At the moment, drake is usefull early and used a lot of time. That's why I don't think it needs a buff contrary to Mimic which is not used in early mid game.

    An option to avoid the buff could be to decrease his stats and decrease his costs. Like having a mimic 120 costs would be really more usefull. That's my opinion.

    But I understand your point of view Foliessser and I can understand you prefer to have some mercenaries which are used only in specific situation and rare cases. ;) Even if I think, at the moment, it is really too rare for the mimic :D
     
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  13. foliesseer

    foliesseer Member

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    Reading your post makes me I am probably doing a terrible job talking about this topic :p. think I can sum it up with saying that we both agree that its better to send other mercenaries than a Mimic in most cases. And even on a wave where the Mimic should be better than the other 160 mythium mercenary (Pack Leader), it's still better to send Brutes or a 4E if possible.
    Centaur is very effective against mass units. If you have like 20 Bone Warriors clumped up, Centaur will take care of them very fast. Mimic also does this job but without the splash. When I send a centaur, I don't say to myself "I'm going to send a Centaur because he is quite tanky", but "I'm going to send a Centaur to deal with his T1 and T2 creeps he spammed". And really, whenever I sent a Mimic I had the same thought. As an example: "I need to deal with his Consorts, Green Devils and his Gateguard summons, maybe I should PTA send a Mimic on 14 together with Auras." That's where I see the use of Mimic.
    I actually LOVE this idea and was thinking about mentioning the same. Pack Leader is almost always better unless on 5/6/10/13, but you can't get Mimic out before 10 in most cases. And if you can, you generally want to send something else (Lizard Spam, Brutes, Tanks, etc.). Having Mimic on 120 would be so much nicer as a "melee pierce" version of drake. It reminds me a bit of Lizard and Fiend as well (before Fiend's cost was changed to 60 of course). Overall, I really support this idea.
    No hard feelings man :D. It's just that I personally really think that Mimic is already really strong for a 160 mythium mercenary, but too niche to actually use. I think straight up buffing Mimic is a bad idea but I am definitely open for rebalancing him with a cost reduction or maybe even an ability, at the cost of stats. I'm pretty curious what Jules has to say about this.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
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