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v2.35: Pathing Fix, Balance Patch

Discussion in 'Patch Notes' started by Lisk, Aug 14, 2018.

  1. Lisk

    Lisk Director Staff Member

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    2018_0814_patchnote.jpg

    Announcements
    Last patch before I get married. This is a balance-only patch because we don’t want to risk anything breaking anything critical while I am gone. When I come back, we’ll be releasing two new mercenaries and four fighters (two tiers) from legion 6.

    v2.35 Patch Notes

    Deployed 8.14 11:17 am PDT (20:17 CEST)

    Pathing & Targeting
    - Melee units are less likely to lock onto targets that are far away

    This fixes some cases where a fighter placed on the side would travel across to the other side, when receiving a tanky mercenary (in front), because it was trying to hard to help out its ally. This unintended behavior likely came about as a combination of v2.33 pathing improvements as well as having tanky mercenaries spawn more in front.

    Update: We had to revert the pathing fix because it caused another, more serious issue. In response, we made tanks spawn a bit later to reduce the issue. It won't be perfect, but it's the best we can do right now.


    Game Balance

    Starting this patch, we’re providing data context on why fighters are getting buffed or nerfed. We evaluate data at all rating brackets, and the specific data below is for 1600+ games.

    Keep in mind the vast majority of fighters are 49-51% win rate, and usage rate is often a better indicator of power. <50% win rate usually means overrated/overused and >50% win rate usually means underrated/underused. In the long run, everything converges to 50%. A 50% win rate fighter picked 10% of the time is likely weaker than a 50% win rate fighter picked 30% of the time because it is the optimal choice in fewer situations.

    Tier 1

    BoneWarrior.png
    Bone Warrior red_arrow.png

    - Attack speed: 0.89 -> 0.88

    BoneCrusher.png
    Bone Crusher red_arrow.png

    - Health: 1100 -> 1090

    Very high usage (38%)
    Average win rate (50%)


    Buzz.png
    Buzz green_arrow.png

    - Attack speed: 1.11 -> 1.12

    Consort.png
    Consort green_arrow.png

    - Attack speed: 1.08 -> 1.09

    Low usage (14%)
    Low win rate (48%)


    Peewee.png
    Peewee red_arrow.png

    - Attack speed: 0.98 -> 0.97

    High usage (29%)
    High win rate (51%)


    Tier 2

    AquaSpirit.png
    Aqua Spirit red_arrow.png

    - Attack speed: 0.76 -> 0.75

    RogueWave.png
    Rogue Wave red_arrow.png

    - Attack speed: 0.8 -> 0.79

    FireElemental.png
    Fire Elemental red_arrow.png

    - Attack speed: 0.77 -> 0.76

    High usage (31%)
    Very high win rate (53%)


    Tier 3

    Windhawk.png
    Windhawk green_arrow.png

    - Attack speed: 1.04 -> 1.06

    Violet.png
    Violet green_arrow.png

    - Lightning Strike: Damage: 140 -> 150

    Very low usage (10%)
    Low win rate (49%)


    Gateguard.png
    Gateguard green_arrow.png

    - Chaos Hound: Attack speed: 1.02 -> 1.06

    Harbinger.png
    Harbinger green_arrow.png

    - Cerberus: Attack speed: 1.02 -> 1.06

    Very low usage (9%)
    Very low win rate (43%)


    Wileshroom.png
    Wileshroom green_arrow.png

    - Health: 1450 -> 1460

    Canopie.png
    Canopie green_arrow.png

    - Health: 3750 -> 3780

    Average usage (21%)
    Very low win rate (45%)


    Tempest.png
    Tempest green_arrow.png

    - Anti-air turret: Range: 350 -> 400

    Very low usage (7%)
    Average win rate (50%)


    Tier 4

    Grarl.png
    Grarl red_arrow.png

    - Health: 1420 -> 1410
    - Attack speed: 0.82 -> 0.81

    Very high usage (40%)
    Average win rate (50%)


    Honeyflower.png
    Honeyflower green_arrow.png

    - Health: 1140 -> 1150

    Low usage (11%)
    Low win rate (48%)


    Tier 5

    PriestessOfTheAbyss.png
    Priestess green_arrow.png

    - Damage: 33x3 -> 34x3

    Average usage (17%)
    Low win rate (48%)


    Doppelganger.png
    Doppelganger green_arrow.png

    - Attack speed: 1.85 -> 1.89

    Very low usage (7%)
    Very low win rate (46%)


    Whitemane.png
    Whitemane red_arrow.png

    - Health: 4300 -> 4250

    High usage (31%)
    High win rate (51%)


    Tier 6

    BananaHaven.png
    Banana Haven red_arrow.png

    - Health: 6050 -> 6000

    Very high usage (40%)
    High win rate (51%)


    DoomsdayMachine.png
    Doomsday Machine red_arrow.png

    - Detonation: Damage: 170 -> 160

    Average usage (22%)
    Very high win rate (53%)


    Mercenaries

    SiegeRam.png
    Siege Ram red_arrow.png

    - Health: 5700 -> 5650

    Kraken.png
    Kraken green_arrow.png

    - Health: 6400 -> 6500
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 14, 2018
  2. deutscherhawk

    deutscherhawk Moderator

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    Just for clarification, are the usage rates pulled strictly from MM games, or does it includes games with that legion?

    And @Lisk, congratulations once again! It's a truly magical experience and I wish you both all the best!
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  3. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    Great question. It's the Mastermind usage rate. The reason we're showing this is that Atlantean fighters' usage rates are inflated from Atlantean being recently released.
     
    deutscherhawk likes this.
  4. jitsuc4

    jitsuc4 Moderator

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    I'm still afraid, even though you say this :p

    Also, I don't understand the patch notes when there's no pictures and arrows telling me what's up.
     
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  5. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    I'll go make it pretty now. ;)
     
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  6. foliesseer

    foliesseer Member

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    Jesus Christ, that winrate! I was already avoiding Gateguard for at least a few months now, but I never actually thought it had this bad of a winrate. Even with the pretty big attack speed buff on the hounds, I don't think this will put it above 45%-46%. But I'm really glad that this unit is getting a buff, since I really love units that summon other units.
    Canopies are definitely strong already, so I'm not very happy with seeing this buff. The meta finally shifted so that Canopie is no longer a free hold on 7/8 and now it's getting buffed... Please no :(.

    Overall a pretty decent patch. It would be nice if @GvR Mr Mister would also have winrates of the units on his website since I think it's very interesting to look at these stats.
     
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  7. Roshkatul

    Roshkatul Member

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    Good patch, thank god for pathing fix. Still disappointed that there's no nerf for Boosted veterans. They are now even crazier than before if you combine them with eggsack. You can just place an egg, boost for 2 waves (11/12 or 16/17), guarantee a hold, and get a fully stacked hydra. It's just disgusting.
     
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  8. Seraphin

    Seraphin Member

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    Hummmmm love the new starter with gateguard :D :D and while starter will be very good too. Still think bone crusher nerf is not enough
     
  9. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    Yes please!
    Good point. I agree that it's too strong. It's tricky because I still see people in Global Chat saying Eggsack is useless, and we don't want to ruin the perception of the fighter for 99% of players, just because the top 1% has figured out how to use it effectively. I'm guessing Veteran and/or Hydra may need a nerf next patch.
    Bone Crusher will still be good. We're being intentionally conservative because this is the last patch for a few weeks, and we don't want to break anything, including balance.
     
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  10. nickjick

    nickjick Member

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    We're trying to figure out the best way to report on this. I know we have a plan in place, but we are making sure that we do it right :) There will be another stat by unit object in the API to get the pick and win rate. So it is definitely planned! Basically the only reason it's not on ltdstats is becuase I am a slacker trying to figure out the most cost-effective(time-wise) way to expose this in the API :)
     
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  11. foliesseer

    foliesseer Member

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    Taking ltdstats.com as an example, you are already pulling which units are used each game (in the Games tab). Couldn't you just pull what towers were in that game, note down which team won with what towers and compile this in a chart? I guess this is more a question aimed towards GvR since he would be compiling the data this way but I could see it being implemented without any additions or changes to the API.
     
  12. Nacccho

    Nacccho Member

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    Yeeeeehooo, super good patch! Agreed with most of the changes and this pathing was the most frustrating i've ever experienced. Thanks for fixing it quickly.

    God, PLEASE NERF IT HARDER. Jesus, its been more than 5 patches that peewees/vets are the bane of my days. Now if u roll hydras/grarl, is pretty much a garanteed game. Veteran also needs a nerf, harder than less then 0.01% damage when boosted, really.


    This also need to be nerfed harder. It shouldnt hold 2 alone with no send.
    1)Currently fills up ur Tank spot on ur roll;
    2) Gives you a whole new spectrum of starts.
    3)Its the worst start to send into, u dont know if the opponent is keeping grarl, going for bunk 3, egg 2. So its also one of the most comfortable starts to pick, cause theres a high possiblity for people to miss read u, and allow u a easy early.
    4)Insane midgame potential with the new templar (WHICH I LOVE).
    5)Versatility for floating gold.

    Grarl should be a LOT weaker as fighter, so its more vulnerable 2 and 3.

    ~~

    I get that hydras are tricky to use so the lower elo players might have a bad time using it, but isn't it better for it to go underused 1600- than being just game breaking for players that use its potential to its fullest?
     
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  13. CodeShooter

    CodeShooter Member

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    It is a very good patch. The pathing of the units has improved a lot, in a good way. I only discovered a side effect of the patch. The units Sea serpent and Deepcoiler suffer from this new pathing patch. I had several waves that these units moved to the finised wave section while the rest of my units were still fighting the wave.

    I know that I can fix this by closer placing the other units to the Sea serpent and Deepcoiler. I also know that pathing is a difficult subject in games, so I just wanted to bring it to your attention, so you know about it.

    Keep up the good work.

    Ps @Lisk, congratulations and the best wishes to the both of you.
     
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  14. Infinity

    Infinity Member

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    I think the gateguard change won't be enough. Giving him a second spawn would make him more interesting again. I think the unit isn't meant to be doing damage or anything but everything that spawns always gets interesting if you reach a point where you can stall for a long time with it. With Hades that can be the case, Gateguards however have always been useless in this aspect. If you don't want him to have 2 spawns another idea might be to reduce the spawn manacost or something.
     
  15. GvR Mr Mister

    GvR Mr Mister Member

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    Atm i dont have games stored on my server, so i would have to request all games from the api to calc overall winrates by my own.There are 4 options to provide these stats atm: A) request all games of patch x and calc winrates in frontend (many api requests, long loading time) B) I could import all games to my server and request it instead of the api (But i would need 1 request (api is limited to 5k request/day) per new game to import it) C) I import all games of a past patch, calc the stats serverside and provide them to my frontend (so you could see winrates per unit of patch 2.33 and older without long loading times) D) I wait for nick so the API calcs the winrates serverside and i request the results only (less work for me, no big traffic).
     
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  16. daimon620

    daimon620 Member

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  17. Pettulf

    Pettulf Member

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    Can you fix the egg please? Its either overpowered or really bad. And its no use of building it late game because who wants to spend 275 gold on something u get in return in 2 rounds. Its a waste really.
     
  18. Crazy

    Crazy Member

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    I dont agree. Egg is super strong lategame. You either get a 500 value fighter (Hydra without -) or you force a send from your enemy. Egg on it own isnt that strong, but it affects the enemies and forces 'em into weird sends
     
  19. Seraphin

    Seraphin Member

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    Agree with Crazy. At the moment Eggs are pretty strong. Not in the unit itself but as strategy aspect.
    That's why I think Atlan Legion is really OP. You have Eggs and Grarl which are very strong as strategy tool. At the moment, those abilities are just insane!
     
  20. Nacccho

    Nacccho Member

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    Yea thats precisely it, you put it out before waves you're good at.
    Considering they have to see the egg before sending, it will be on its second wave. Since you're already good there, unless you made a really bad read, worst case scenario will be marginal leak, and you're still getting a 420ish value unit for 275 gold. And now you have no pressure on.
    It's INSANE.
    But the grarl/hydra start is what breaks the game honestly, since the sender has two options, and two shitty ones, which are:
    1) STARVING HARD. Normally from 3 to 7/8.
    That sucks, a lot. Makes you really vulnerable to leak 6-7, fucks up ur late game if you don't get significant damage, and quite frankly holds your push more than the hydra.
    2)Send normally, which allows the hydra player to push like no other build lets you.

    ~~~
    Not even considering the fact that the full hydra is worth about 530. So when it comes to match ups, on good ones you add some extra value, and on bad ones you remove some.
    On waves like 9-11-13, hydras worth more than 650 i'd say.
    And on the absolute worst case scenario match ups, like 15, they will be worth about 300.
    YOU PAID 275 FOR IT.

    I think it's as broken as Doomsday when it was first reworked, possibly more.
     
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