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v2.43: Desert Pilgrim, Lost Chieftain, Lizard Army

Discussion in 'Patch Notes' started by Jules, Dec 7, 2018.

  1. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    2018_1206_NomadT4.jpg

    v2.43 Patch Notes
    - Released!

    NEW! Nomad Tier 4

    DesertPilgrim_card_s.png

    Desert Pilgrim
    - Cost: 135 gold + 1 supply
    - Upgrades to: Lost Chieftain
    - Movement type: Ground
    - Health: 900 (Fortified)
    - Damage: 60 (Magic)
    - Attack speed: 0.9
    - Range: 350
    - Mana: 10

    ChainHeal.png
    Ability: Chain Heal
    Heals up to 4 nearby allies for 140 health. Mana cost: 10

    via Sketchfab


    BanishedChieftain_card_s.png

    Lost Chieftain
    - Upgrade Cost: 255 gold + 1 supply
    - Movement type: Ground
    - Health: 2500 (Fortified)
    - Damage: 170 (Magic)
    - Attack speed: 0.9
    - Range: 350
    - Mana: 14

    GaiaShield.png
    Ability: Gaia Shield
    Increases the max health of a nearby ally by 800, maintaining current percent health. Mana cost: 14

    via Sketchfab


    NEW! Legion Spell

    LizardArmy.png
    Lizard Army
    - Summons Lizards to attack your lane opponent (no income)
    - 1 Lizard on wave 11, 2 on wave 12, and 3 on wave 13

    Game Improvements

    FairPlay
    - Fixed an edge case where a player might have gotten double-suspended for a single offense

    Translations
    - Updated

    Game Balance

    Tier 1

    Buzz.png
    Buzz green_arrow.png
    - Attack speed: 1.16 -> 1.2

    Consort.png
    Consort green_arrow.png
    - Attack speed: 1.12 -> 1.15

    Tier 3

    SeaSerpent.png
    Sea Serpent green_arrow.png
    - Damage: 74 -> 75

    No longer leaves wave 1 with 1 health

    Gateguard.png
    Gateguard green_arrow.png
    - Chaos Hound now spawns further back

    Harbinger.png
    Harbinger green_arrow.png
    - Cerberus now spawns further back

    This change allows Chaos Hound/Cerberus to live longer, which also means the wave won’t quickly refocus and target your Gateguard/Harbinger.

    Warg.png
    Warg green_arrow.png
    - Attack speed: 0.819 -> 0.84

    Tier 4

    Butcher.png
    Butcher green_arrow.png red_arrow.png
    - Attack range: 300 -> 200

    HeadChef.png
    Head Chef green_arrow.png red_arrow.png
    - Attack range: 300 -> 200

    Shorter range allows Butcher and Head Chef to tank better for DPS units

    Honeyflower.png
    Honeyflower green_arrow.png red_arrow.png
    - Health: 1150 -> 1180
    - 10 + 0.2% (0.1% to bosses) -> 10 + 0.1% (0.05% to bosses)

    Reverting the health nerf from last patch in favor of a % damage nerf

    Deathcap.png
    Deathcap red_arrow.png
    - Damage: 30 + 0.4% (0.2% to bosses) -> 30 + 0.3% (0.15% to bosses)

    APS.png
    APS green_arrow.png red_arrow.png
    - Attack range: 250 -> 200

    MPS.png
    MPS green_arrow.png red_arrow.png
    - Attack range: 250 -> 200

    Shorter range allows APS and MPS to tank better for DPS units

    Tier 5

    Nightmare.png
    Nightmare red_arrow.png
    - Attack range: 150 -> 100

    Doppelganger.png
    Doppelganger red_arrow.png
    - Attack range: 150 -> 100

    Reverting this change, which made Nightmare and Doppelganger act too much like ranged units


    Whitemane.png
    Whitemane red_arrow.png
    - Damage: 180 -> 175

    Tier 6

    Eggsack.png
    Eggsack green_arrow.png red_arrow.png
    - Health: 2000 -> 2200
    - Azurite Shell: Reflect damage: 10 + 5% -> 10
    - When you build an Eggack in front, your fighters now aggro a bit later, which allows you to more easily use melee DPS with Eggsack. We recommend testing things in a custom game.

    The following changes are postponed (planned for later):
    - If your Eggsack dies, it now immediately spawns a premature Hydra during the wave
    - Premature penalty: 15% per stack -> 40% per stack
    - Stacking: Multiplicative -> Additive (40% for 1 stack, 80% for 2 stacks)


    Hydra.png
    Hydra red_arrow.png
    - Health: 2850 -> 3000
    - Damage: 174 -> 144
    - Hydraling: Health: 950 -> 1000
    - Hydraling: Damage: 58 -> 48

    Goals:
    - Make Eggsack less roll-dependent
    - Make Eggsack more accessible mid-late game
    - Reduce reward of a fully powered Hydra
    - Shift Hydra into more of a tank


    BananaHaven.png
    Banana Haven green_arrow.png red_arrow.png
    - Health: 6000 -> 6250
    - Thorns: Damage reflect: 45 + 15% -> 40 + 15%

    Mercenaries

    Witch.png
    Witch red_arrow.png
    - Mana: 15 -> 24
    - Necromancy: Mana gain per unit death: 1 -> 2
    - Summon Froggo: Mana cost: 15 -> 24

    Keep in mind that base mana regeneration is still 1 for all units with mana

    Waves

    KillerSlug.png
    (14) Killer Slugs red_arrow.png
    - Attack speed: 0.781 -> 0.769

    Quadrapus.png
    (15) Quadrapuses green_arrow.png
    - Health: 2200 -> 2250
    - Giant Quadrapus: 8800 -> 9000

    Cardinal.png
    (16) Cardinals red_arrow.png
    - Attack speed: 0.95 -> 0.93

    MetalDragon.png
    (17) Metal Dragons green_arrow.png
    - Health: 3100 -> 3150

    Maccabeus.png
    (20) Maccabeus red_arrow.png
    - Damage: 170 -> 165
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
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  2. Nacccho

    Nacccho Member

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    No income, but it does reward the enemy right?
    Very creative spell.
    Its missing the downwards red arrow, as it is also a "nerf".

    Lol ;p

    ~~
    Welcome back medicine man, hahaha.
     
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  3. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    Yes, bounty is rewarded.

    Fixed, thank you!
     
  4. SirCloud

    SirCloud Member

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    We egg meta now.
     
  5. Mick

    Mick Member

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    Healers yay! :D I wonder how they will work. Will they prioritize certain units or is it random which unit they pick? (Especially Lost Chieftain) And is there a cooldown/mana or just a one time thing?

    Interesting! At first I was like: who cares about some lizards being sent, but I guess it should mainly be used when you want to send level 13, in which case 120 extra mythium send on dps can be quite good. I also like the 'down side' of feeding your enemy without getting income. I do think this is the only spell that is actually backstabbing if you don't manage to make the enemy leak (no inc for you, feed for them), so I don't think it will be used a lot, only if you are certain it will help you a great deal.


    Some interesting changes. I like that you did something with honeyflower/dcap suggestions. It's a conservative change. I don't know how much it will change the nature of the unit.

    Reverting the range of nightmare, yes. I would have loved to have seen something which made it more useful without a butcher at its side, though.

    Yay, a hydra rework! Although I have to say it is very confusing for me. It says 'reduce the reward of a fully powered Hydra' and at the same time it says 'premature penalty -> 40%". Anyway, I like that the unit is being reworked, and it makes sense to me that something comes out of the egg if it breaks. I don't see how the unit is more accessible in mid-late game, since the fully powered one is the only one that really matters now, so you need the 2 waves even more than before. I guess the logic behind the 'accessibility' is that it fights if it breaks earlier, but who would even consider a -40% or -80% fighter in his build? Anyway changes this big to a unit would need to be tested before I can give some comments that make sense, so please let me know when the PTR is up :D
     
  6. Roshkatul

    Roshkatul Member

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    Nomad Tier 4:
    Oracles from wc3 :O (kinda, at least the unupgraded version)

    Desert pilgrim:
    - Can we please also get to see the mana cost in the patchnotes everytime we get a new unit which has a spell? Seems pretty important.
    - First thoughts: The unit seems a bit understated, but the strong ability might cover for it, depending on the mana cost needed. This unit will be a total monster as far as wave 5 goes, but then it has a few really weak waves (6,7,10). This magic-fortified combo is quite awkward, it's neither good or bad on most waves, and it only has 2 perfect waves (5/11).

    Lost chieftain:
    - As opposed to desert pilgrim, this seems a bit overstated compared to other t4 units. This will be a DPS machine, which might be good because we are lacking good magic damage dealers, but this might be a little bit too strong
    - It will be interesting to see what's the algorithm behind choosing the buff target. Does it choose the highest hp unit? Will it prioritize green devils?
    - Seems a pretty strong unit overall, but it's gonna be a bad unit on 13/14, which might hurt it's usability.

    Lizard army:
    - I do feel like most of us underestimate how much dps lizards can do
    - Even like that, the spell is kinda bad. It easily tells your opponent what spell you picked and what your plans are. If you don't succeed on using it properly, you just feed your opponents a lot of gold
    - Can cause some interesting mind games scenario, where you can fake your opponents into thinking you picked lizard army (by sending a lizard on 11), but instead you picked venture or overwork. But even in those scenarios, you waste quite a bit of mythium.
    - You could just pick lizard army, make your opponents think you go 13, but you go 14 instead. But even in this scenario, you give your opponents 72 extra gold.
    - This spell could actually destroy fenix as a wave 13 counter.
    => I think it's a weak spell, worst case scenario you get nothing out of it, and that's not good with a spell. Even worse, you actually give your opponents something.

    Buzz/consort: I think they were fine before, but people underestimate them. The extra attack speed won't hurt that much though.
    Sea serpent: Ok?

    Gateguard/Harbinger: Depending on how this works in-game it's a huge buff or just a well needed buff. We'll see how this plays out (I'm also really curious about how this will work out early game (wave 1,2,3). Prepare to change gateguard/harbinger as soon as possible, because if things get crazy, they'll get really crazy.

    Warg: Needed buff, i guess? But the unupgraded version isn't the issue here. The upgraded versions are.

    Butcher/head chef: Looking forward on how this will work out with the reduced range on nightmare/doppel in the standard forsaken start. Even though you wanted that extra range during the early game with quite a few units (priestess, aqua spirits). So i'm 50/50 with this change.

    Honeyflower: Interesting change, honeyflower start might be a bit easier to do once again
    Deathcap: Hah, take that Lisk! You didn't wanna nerf them as much as I did, now they are nerfed even harder :cool:. This might be enough if we also consider the wave 15 buff.

    Aps/Mps: Okay changes I guess. Even though you wanted that extra range during the early game with quite a few units (priestess, aqua spirits). So it might be a nerf for quite a few builds while not being a strong enough buff for other builds.

    Nightmare/doppel: Finally. Took long enough.

    Whitemane: Doesn't do much, but i guess it's an okay change. Whitemane is really strong overall

    Egg sack: I really like this. So now, if your egg breaks, at least you don't leak the whole wave anymore. Seems pretty nice. I also like it being shifted into a tank. I wonder how egg sack start will turn out.

    Banana Haven: Decent change, I like it.

    Waves:
    14
    - Needed change, 14 is too strong
    15 - Needed change, 15 is too weak (mainly because it deals quite a small amount of king damage and allows the push of x2 workers)
    ALSO: As I said last night, buffing the DPS by x% is nowhere near as strong as buffing the HP by x%. Wave 15 overkills a lot, due to slow projectiles, concentrated focus and really high attack damage, so buffing the dps is not as effective as buffing the HP. Buffing the HP is almost a guarantee that the wave is stronger, since there are very few units which deal a big enough chunk of damage to overkill the wave (mainly only doomsday and maybe a fully drained fenix). Other units like azeria/zeus/pretty much any other unit with under 200 attack damage, will be having a harder time with this wave and will feel the HP buff way harder than a DPS buff.
    16 - This wasn't a needed change at all. People prefered sending on 16 because 15 was really weak. So the buff to wave 15, also acted as a nerf to wave 16. Wave 16 is already fairly weak against king in certain scenarios.
    17 - Is weak because of how many units completely demolish 17 (doomsdays, deathcaps, havens, aqua spam, and so on). So a buff is always welcomed.
    20 - I guess we'll now see more wave 21s? Allows more builds which could actually do good on 21 (AoE/bounce builds) to hold 20 easier, so it might be a good change.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
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  7. Nacccho

    Nacccho Member

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    Thats also the reason 14 is strong. There is almost anything that carries there.
    There are DDs, doppels/headcheff and sea serpents. And they all can quite easily be countered with sends nowadays.

    And people better not bring canopie as a counter to 14, cause cano sucks there, against virtually every half decent send.
     
  8. EpvpDani

    EpvpDani Developer Staff Member

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    Patch should be live on ptr now
     
  9. Roshkatul

    Roshkatul Member

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    PTR Notes so far:
    - Undead Dragon has a cool new winter skin: https://media.discordapp.net/attach...100509769729/unknown.png?width=841&height=473
    - APS/MPS might be too strong right now, can even have them tank for wileshrooms/violets which makes it slightly too strong
    - Egg sack doesn't work as intended + the unit description is wrong
    Right now: It doesn't spawn a hydra when it dies and next wave it spawns a hydra with -21% stats.
    (probably not fully coded yet) Edit: Apparently egg sack change won't be live for this patch
    - There are no nomad units at all in the featured gamemode (there are only the fully completed 5 legions)
    - The featured gamemode matchmaking doesn't work properly (if only 5 players queue, 4 get put into one team and the other one gets put in a team with 3 bots, instead of shuffling it)
     
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  10. Seraphin

    Seraphin Member

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    Hello !

    Thanks for this patch. Below, you will find my feedback concerning this :

    Obviously cool to get another unit :D :D It will be interesting to see if it is not too much strong with butcher + banana for example. Also, it could be cool if we know how the ally is chosen and the spell cost @Jules.

    I'm always okay for a new spell. But I'm not sure this spell will be very usefull. However, it could give the opportunity to outbrain your opponent so I guess we need to see how it goes and see if we need to buff it.

    Let's see if buzz won't be too strong now. I feel like people under evaluate it.

    It was not necessary I think. Sea Serpent is already a strong start. But why not.

    As @Roshkatul said, this could be crazy or just a good buff. Need to see to say.

    That was necessary but I feel like Warg is just not the unit you want to use in early because of his attack type/defense type. This unit is horrible 3, strong 4, okay 5, horrible 6, bad 7, bad 8, bad 9 and strong 10. So I feel like you need to make it really too strong to make it interesting in early. But maybe I'm wrong.

    That's really a good thing !! Now it won't be perma pick XD.

    I feel like APS/MPS will be really strong since you can use it to tank for 9 for example or for 11-12.

    Good things ! Dopple and butcher won't be anymore a nightmare ! :p

    So it is not anymore a starter now. That's good. However, the risk is more important and reward not that much interesting. Now you will use egg only if you want to force your opponent to send for a particular wave and not for the reward I think.

    That's interesting but don't know what to think about it to be honest.

    Wave 14 was obviously too strong. However, I'm not sure it was necessary to nerf it since you buff wave 15. Same thing for wave 16. Because of this nerf and the wave 16 nerf, the meta will be around wave 15 now I think.

    Trouble with this wave is there are a lot of units which are strong against this. But for sure +50hp will help !

    Definitively a good thing. I won some games on this wave when I feel that I don't deserve it and lost some games that I feel I deserve to win.
    This wave is still a gamble for me but I guess this is because I don't often play this wave.

    To conclude, I feel this is a good patch even if I don't agree with all. But usually, we need to test to know how people will react since we don't play as efficient as we could. For example, Heaven is perma pick even if it is not OP.
     
  11. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    Patch is now live! Made the following changes:
    • Hydra hatching immediately -> postponed (we plan to implement this later)
    • Witch overall weaker, but still as strong against unit mass
    • Desert Pilgrim: Chain Heal: 100 -> 140
    • Lost Chieftain: Gaia Shield: Now increases max health by 800, maintaining current percent health
    • Added ability/mana details to the patch notes for the new units
     
  12. Awesome-O

    Awesome-O Member

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    Any plans to address the % hp healing units. Wildshroom and bone crusher in combination with chieftains?

    It rly broken to be frank :)
     
  13. Nacccho

    Nacccho Member

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    lol, i havent played much, but i really doubt bonecrushers and canopies can be even close to being broken mid to late game....
     
  14. SirCloud

    SirCloud Member

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    70% the early games decides if you win or lose so I guess he's refering to this.
     
  15. Awesome-O

    Awesome-O Member

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    Nacccho go try it then, an unkillable unit is pritty good in a defence game :)
     
  16. Seraphin

    Seraphin Member

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    Actually, Canopie et Bone crusher are only broken with Pilgrim and his upcrade. However, with chieftain it is not op at all. Particularly when you know Canopie is horrible on wave 11-12.
    Canopie is at the moment, an early unit which should make you able to get an advantage on your opponent at the end of wave 10 since the unit is particularly bad mid/late game. Same for bone crusher.

    I can understand it is frustrating for low/medium elo to play against those unit but they are definitively not op. ;)
     
  17. Nacccho

    Nacccho Member

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    Yea that was kinda my point, canopie is gargage after 11. It's even bad 14 against pretty much any send... Bonecrusher aswell...

    And pilgrim isn't by any means a power house unit, so i guess its okay, to have this strong synergy early, with units that just aren't that good.

    I might be wrong tho, because i didnt test it enough.

    ~~
    Oh @Jules , just wanted to officialize my request for removing t1s from re-roll spell.
     
  18. Mick

    Mick Member

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    I don't think I agree with that. The synergy on early levels is definitely super strong, and you talk like someone would mass canopies/bone crushers? If you make 2 whileshrooms with pilgrim it is really strong (because heal bounces 2x to each whileshroom from start) and you have enough time and resources to prepare for 9/11/12 too. Also don't forget by that time you can have a Chieftain which is supergood on 11, who can make something like a mudman or Banana bunk tank super hard while doing dps in the back (with chieftain + some pilgrims).

    Edit: btw I don't think they need to be nerfed, because this synergy also takes some investment, and makes you lack some other things. But it is a very strong if executed well.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018