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v3.00/a: Season 2 Rewards, 4v4 Queue, Bot Difficulties, New Map!

Discussion in 'Patch Notes' started by Jules, Jan 11, 2019.

  1. Mick

    Mick Member

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    When the MM/legion thing was a big discussion, I played a legion (Grove) for a weekend to see what the differences were. I really enjoyed playing the legion, it was actually a lot of fun getting good at the small details of the build. However, after playing 10+ games I got to know my build so well that any normal send could not break me anymore and I did not need a lot of skill for that to happen, because it was the same units over and over again. So even though I understand that legions are actually a lot of FUN to play, I think it's the only fair thing that everyone has to play MM, because it takes much more skill and keeps the game fun for everyone in the long run.
     
  2. Steven

    Steven Member

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    i played like more then 10k games in old legion, on bots with bigger playerpools than legion td2 and a good 4v4 happens once a decade. 2v2 is balanced - not too slow, not too fast - no epilepsies.
     
  3. Steven

    Steven Member

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    absolutely - 2v2 mastermind, gogogo! give us our elo now!
     
  4. Mick

    Mick Member

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    I think that's really interesting, because I was a huge 4v4 supporter, but since 4v4 is on casual, I am doubting whether if this game would go back to 4v4 'only' is better, with the experiences I have on there.

    Maybe 4v4 is actually better suited for a league or something, comparable to 1200+ bot on ENT in the old LTD, instead of public ranked.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  5. Steven

    Steven Member

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    LTD2 2v2 looks more actionpacked then the old 4v4 to me. I wish we could keep this game slow as the ancient legion spirit was like.
     
  6. SiegeMentality

    SiegeMentality Member

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    Oh ho ho, aren't you cute? I have had said many times that the top players have far too much influence on balance changes. Did I ever say Rosh specifically? I think I've played with / against him a few times over the past year or so, and I really don't know how he climbed. As he's currently #1, I'll give him the respect that he's due - He got to #1. He's holding #1. The how and why? IDGAF


    And this bothers you how? I don't have a crystal ball, but I'll say that most likely you lost to these people that you're able to quote data about. Let's think about the data a moment, to climb to 2.4k using Grove, one has to play... at least 100 games doing that build. Agree? Maybe 200? Whatever the number is, that person was pretty dedicated and leaving a trail on https://ltdstats.com/ nobody figured out how to break it? I mean, OP gimmicks come and go every patch, I would think that the top ten would have the skill to defend their position against an OP gimmick that's currently happening...

    Oh yeah, about that whole mech business... I was top ten in Mech during season one when everyone laughed at mech. I climbed a little, and then I got so incredibly bored with mech that I stopped playing it and fell 300 or so points while messing around with other builds. Then someone tweaked a few units and voila! We had a mad rush of mech players climbing the ladder. I still wonder if the changes to mech were to actually inspire people to play mech or cater to the MM crowd. #lifequestions

    I would be interested to see a chart of that percentage from the beginning, because I'd seriously gamble that the reason why legions are chosen so infrequently is because the constant balance changes aimed at MM players. They have wrecked legions to the point that they're only chosen when there's an OP gimmick going around.

    Why are we talking about Rosh again? He's one player out of 80kish? Are you seriously thinking that balance changes that effect the entire player base should be decided by what the number one player is doing?

    As someone that starts tinkering around with an idea and drops 200 - 400 points over the course of a day or so frequently, this data doesn't impress me.

    I'm really sorry that you had to take time out of your life to type something that is so painfully obvious, but so vehemently denied.

    Why is this important? I've only been top ten for mech. I've never been top ten overall. Does something special happen when you crack the top ten overall? Why must we defend it so desperately? I would think it would be amusing for the top ten to have upstarts challenge them with the latest OP gimmick.

    Or would the top ten prefer to only play by themselves for the rest of Legion's lifespan? #lifequestions

    I will end this post simply - Yes, I am still that bitch.
     
  7. andialki

    andialki Member

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    I am only a low level player, but I have some questions about this patch:

    1.) Why is there a pre-season? My experience with recent low-level ELO matches has been that more players leave early or play with a high risk because there is no change in the ranking. Maybe it is only my experience but playing is a bit annoying currently and I think the data you collect out of these matches is kind of useless.

    2.) I played some games against the AI and it is nice that there are several difficulty levels but i am not sure about the use of it if the hard AI gets more starting money and therefore the match is no training for ranked matched e.g. a 7 worker start with a honeyflower is not possible in a ranked match

    3.) I think mastermind only for ranked matches is a good idea, but I read about players that prefer playing legions. Why do you not give them their own league with legions only?
    I read about the balance problems you have with some units and Maybe a solution would be to make them unavailable for mm or just change their stats for mm games (you could also change colour,size or name of the unit)?
     
  8. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    Here's our rationale:

    1. Cooldown period so players can experiment/relax without worrying about rating
    2. Allows players to try the new 4v4 queue without feeling like they are falling behind on the ranked ladder
    3. Allows devs to make some aggressive changes that temporarily break the game's balance. For example, see the new patch coming on Monday.

    Rating changes are expected to be re-enabled on January 28th! Or maybe we can do January 25th. Would be nice to have the season start before the weekend. Will talk with the team and announce if anything changes.

    I'm sorry about the leavers. I agree that's really frustrating. Next season, we should consider something like 25% rating changes - enough that players will care, but low enough that it's okay to relax and experiment. What do you think?
    For now, just treat Play vs. AI as a mini-challenge. The Hard bots get to cheat, but you have to outsmart them!

    You make a good point though. In the future, we'd like to improve bot AI to make them smarter/more difficult, so you can legitimately use them to train for ranked.
    Separate queues wouldn't be sustainable (for matchmaking reasons) at this time.
     
  9. nimea

    nimea Member

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    @SiegeMentality

    I don't want to quote your whole posting.

    I didn't have many problems playing against any Legion. It was boring tho. It didn't even take him 100 games to get to 2,4k. When he stopped playing Grove, he never got back to the Top 10. It was not only one bad day. It just showed how strong Legions are. Same story with this atlantean guy who was hard stuck 1600 before.

    The best player with mastermind have around 60-65% winrate. Legion player had about 80-90% winrate when they were up there.

    People play mastermind because it is more fun for most of the playerbase. It's not because they buffed the income as Legions still performed better on the long run. Mastermind player can make their first mistakes before the game starts.
     
  10. andialki

    andialki Member

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    In my opinion everything is better than the current status :)
    Or maybe you could create a medal,badge,etc. for 20/30/50 wins in the pre-season. It would have no effect on the ranking but still there would be a motivation to win games

    And thanks for answering my other questions
     
  11. Nacccho

    Nacccho Member

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    This is so clueless.

    Interactions in LTD2 are very limited, in a way that even 1 imba unit changes the whole meta, like hydra did before(making 5w tier S, even if u were to leak 3, and really punishing 4w starts).

    Now with legions its just next level. It was not the case that just one legion was better than mastermind, all legions were. The early game consistency given the optimization and the smaller vulnerability windows, obligates you to play a very specific way in orther to win. But as you know, the games are circumstancial, and most of the times you're not allowed to send the way you should. Because as MM, you usually didnt have a strong enough core, to sustain long saves with pressure, like legions did.

    So, yea. Most of the guys on top of the ladder knew how to beat that kind of shit, but more often than not, couldn't play like they should, given the circumstances. And ONE wrong/forced send in the early game against bullshit legions, would make you unable to leak them for more than 6-7 waves sometimes.
     
  12. SiegeMentality

    SiegeMentality Member

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    And... what? What have we accomplished? That's my point. The circle continues. We tweak something to appease mastermind. We create a monster. We nerf it to appease mastermind. The top 10 players have the skill to deal with the latest OP. How many tears am I supposed to shed because they were forced to adapt?

    The introduction of new units obviously does not count, but I still don't understand the amount of tears over hydra.
     
  13. nimea

    nimea Member

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    Why should something which requires half the skill be stronger than mastermind?