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v5.01: Legion Spell Update, Balance Changes

Discussion in 'Patch Notes' started by Jules, Jan 7, 2020.

  1. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    2020_0107_Patchnote.jpg

    Happy new year, everyone! Since we just got back from holiday break, we're doing a small balance patch to improve legion spells and address some of the more glaring balance concerns.

    Legion Spells

    A lot of the power budget of these spells was unintentionally in the +500 health. Now they can be more specialized.

    Hero.png
    Hero green_arrow.png red_arrow.png
    - Health gain: 500 -> 0
    - Damage and damage reduction aura: 5% -> 7%

    Magician.png
    Magician green_arrow.png red_arrow.png
    - Health gain: 500 -> 0
    - Mana regen aura: 22% -> 27%

    Sorcerer.png
    Sorcerer green_arrow.png red_arrow.png
    - Health gain: 500 -> 0
    - Spell damage aura: 20% -> 27%

    Vampire.png
    Vampire green_arrow.png red_arrow.png
    - Health gain: 500 -> 0
    - Lifesteal and spell vamp aura: 18% -> 24%

    Villain.png
    Villain green_arrow.png red_arrow.png
    - Health gain: 500 -> 0
    - Damage amplification: 18% (13% for ranged) -> 25% (15% for ranged)
    - Buff duration: 3 -> 1.5 seconds

    Fighters

    Proton.png
    Proton green_arrow.png
    - Attack speed: 1.02 -> 1
    - Ionic Force: Attack speed per stack: 25% -> 30%

    Atom.png
    Atom green_arrow.png
    - Attack speed: 1.02 -> 1
    - Ionic Force: Attack speed per stack: 25% -> 30%

    Proton and Atom were statistically very weak.

    Honeyflower.png
    Honeyflower red_arrow.png
    - Health: 1220 -> 1250
    - Fragrance: Damage: 11 + 0.15% -> 10 + 0.15%

    Honeyflower was the strongest opening in the game. The nerf makes it significantly more vulnerable to Dragon Turtle on wave 2.

    SoulGate.png
    Soul Gate green_arrow.png
    - Hellion: Damage: 45 -> 47
    - Nightcrawler: Damage: 45 -> 47

    HellGate.png
    Hell Gate green_arrow.png
    - Elite Hellion: Damage: 90 -> 94
    - Elite Nightcrawler: Damage: 90 -> 94

    The legion spell changes are also indirect buffs to Soul Gate and Hell Gate.

    Other

    Dragon Turtle
    - Fixed a bug where it was spawning behind other tank mercenaries

    Mastermind Rolls
    - Priestess of the Abyss, Lord of Death, and Millennium no longer satisfy the arcane requirement because they are ranged DPS (if you get one of these, you're guaranteed to get another arcane unit)

    "Unbreakable" Trophy
    - Collection value: 15 -> 3

    When we first designed this trophy, hitting 10,000 fighter value was very rare. It's now more common, especially in Classic games.
     
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  2. Dimlhugion

    Dimlhugion Member

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    I won't lie, a nontrivial portion of my wave 11-13 strategy was to rely on the extra tankiness afforded by the 500 health bonus to the selected unit when I picked those spells. Let's take Quill shooters for example. Against an Ocean Templar, each shooter would normally deal 67 * .85 = 57 damage, rounded up, with .77 attacks per second. Templar's health is normally 1,900 with 4% missing health per second regen. So let's say, once my tank line is broken, roughly half the wave on average is left to focus the Templar. That means 6 * 57 * .77 = 264 dps is hitting the templar.

    So in the first second, his health is down to 1,636. In the next second, he gains 264 * .04 = 11 health, then loses another 264 for a net loss of 253. 1636 - 253 = 1,383 health left, and it attacks for 160 * 1.25 * .83 = 166 dps, which means it takes 1070 / 166 = 7 seconds to kill a single shooter. In other words, 5 more seconds of 6 hits. Formula should therefore be X = Curent_Health + (Max_Health - Current_Health) * .04 - 264.

    3.) 1383 + (1900 - 1383) * .04 - 264 = 1140

    4.) 1140 + (1900 - 1140) * .04 - 264 = 907

    5.) 683

    6.) 468

    7.) 262

    Then for another 7 seconds, only 5 are attacking it. 5 * 57 * .77 = 220.

    Second # 8) 108

    #9.) -40 (dead)

    So a TL;DR version is that a single unbuffed Ocean Templar will last 9 seconds solo against 6 Quill Shooters.

    Now let's factor in a bonus 500 health.

    1.) 2400 - 264 = 2136

    2.) 2136 + (2400 - 2136) * .04 - 264 = 1883

    3.) 1640

    4.) 1407

    5.) 1183

    6.) 968

    7.) 764

    *5 Quill Shooters left, 220 dps against templar now *

    8.) 610

    9.) 462

    *Anything beyond here is a direct result of just the 500 health bonus*

    10.) 320

    11.) 184

    12.) 53

    13.) -74 (dead)

    9 seconds vs 13 seconds, that's a time gain of roughly 44%. Or to look at it another way, that buff helped templar to absorb an additional 880 damage.

    In order for a buff of, say, 2% damage reduction to mitigate 880 damage, the templar would have to survive 880 / .02 = 44,000 total damage. Unbuffed Templar only takes 264 * 7 + 220 * 2 = 2,228 damage.

    Obviously this doesn't tell the whole story, we're only looking at Templar and not the other 6 units affected by the buff aura, but the point of this napkin math is that I have my doubts that a 2% toughness aura buff will compensate for 500 lost health to the primary unit. But as always, I will reserve final judgment for when I actually play with the changes.

    Is this value change retroactive, or does it only apply to future trophy gains? Just curious.
     
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  3. EpvpDani

    EpvpDani Developer Staff Member

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    The patch is now live
     
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  4. SiegeMentality

    SiegeMentality Member

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    As someone that got their collection value the hard way and didn't manipulate unbreakable and brag about it, I'd like to see a retro.
     
  5. Bonny

    Bonny Member

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    I know my mic quality has to improve and im already working on it! Enjoy the new patch!

     
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  6. Seraphin

    Seraphin Member

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    The idea is interesting in my opinion. However, you have to know it's a hard nerf for wave 11-13/14 and a great up for later. Indeed, you remove 500 hp for all which can be see as an instant bonus while the aura will be used little by little. Indeed, that's rare to have 6 units adjacent to your aura spell at wave 11 and even before wave 14. A great example would be disciple with magician.
    No way you have 7 disciple (1400 gold) buffed by the aura before wave 14. That's just impossible except maybe in classic 4v4 games.
    That's not a real problem but it means when you have to choose between 200 gold (with loan for example) and those auras, ou will now usually prefer gold rather than the aura since you will take a huge late in workers/value for the next 3-4 waves.

    So I would say there is an important risk to have those spells not picked in a lot of situations.

    Finally !!!!!!!!!!! That was just horrible to see it. Should change a lot of things particularly for early waves. Could be however a little buff for late games which will be appreciated :)

    Good point here. Didn't like how turtle could pertubate path prediction.

    Thank you for this patch and your work :)
     
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  7. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    I love napkin math and mathcrafting, so it's awesome to see this. Your intuition is right about the 500 health being really strong. Here's how I mathed it out:
    • Heroism Aura was buffed from 5% damage and damage reduction to 7% damage and damage reduction, which is a net +2% damage and damage reduction
    • 2% damage and 2% damage reduction -> let's just call that 4% damage reduction (since it's about the same power)
    • At what point does 4% damage reduction become stronger than 500 health? 500/.04 = 12,500, so if Heroism Aura is buffing units with a total of 12,500 health or higher, it's stronger
    • I would approximate that you need 1400 fighter value in Heroism Aura to get more value from the legion spell
    Agreed, this change means you have to be more careful on waves 11-13 if you take Hero, Magician, Sorcerer, Vampire, or Villain. But it also allows for some really fun synergies late game.

    I believe it applies retroactively.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
  8. Seraphin

    Seraphin Member

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    Question : Why you didn't do same for protector ? Actually, it would have been really interesting since usually, you don't care to have hp bonus when you use protector but you're more interesting by regen gave.
     
  9. Bonny

    Bonny Member

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    Bcs its the only aura which ends as soon as the unit dies. Thats why the hp is needed :D
     
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  10. Seraphin

    Seraphin Member

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    well this is reason is not a good one actually. Because the range of the aura is important, you don't need to put it on a melee unit. Actually, you don't want to have your aura on a melee unit since you want your unit with aura survive till the end of the wave. So, ranged unit are usually the best choice.That's the reason I think you can remove the hp bonus et increase regen. Actually, this has more sense than boosting hp in my opinion.
     
  11. Mhearn1002

    Mhearn1002 Member

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    Stupid question - is there a difference between spell damage and magic damage?

    Wondering if Sorcerer buffs, say, honeyflower's magic damage vs. Zeus' pure attack spell damage.
     
  12. Seraphin

    Seraphin Member

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    Yes there is a difference @Mhearn1002. Magic damage are not considering as a spell but as a physical attack of magic type.
    If we take your example, spell of honey will be boosted but not his attack. Zeus spell will be boosted but not his physical attack.
     
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  13. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    Don't worry, it's not a stupid question. Seraphin answered your question, but you can also check out this guide for more details: https://legiontd2.com/community/threads/spell-damage-mana-gain.18748