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Various Suggestions

Discussion in 'Feature Requests' started by Avengedbegneva, Aug 12, 2018.

  1. Avengedbegneva

    Avengedbegneva Member

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    Hi,

    I'm an old school player from WC3, having played the original Legion TD, the subsequent Squadron TD, and all that is in between. Now with Legion TD 2, I've come back into the fold and enjoy a good game of it every now and then.

    However, I have noted that Legion TD 2 is attempting to become a competitive game. Having played many competitive games seriously over the years, I've noted a few issues with this.

    1. Competitive games avoid the use of dice rolls for determining outcomes.


    The primary culprit for this is Mastermind; I know that Mastermind is a staple of Legion TD, but I honestly believe it has no place in a competitive game in which skill should be the sole factor of victory. If Legion TD 2 is earnest in its desire to become a competitive game, Mastermind should either be removed as a selection from ranked play or redesigned.

    A good example of a competitive game redesigning its dice roll elements is Dota 2; Dota 2 has replaced many of its dice roll passives (15% crit on hit, etc.) and changed its random number generator to become a pseudo-random number generator that is dynamically normalized per instance. (The dice rolls are normalized so that if an effect should proc 20% of the time, the probability of procing increases per missed hit and probability decreases per hit.)

    Skill is the hallmark of a professional; dice rolls are the hallmarks of gamblers. I would suggest three redesigns of Mastermind:

    A. If the spirit of Mastermind is to be maintained, the closest fair implementation would be to make it so that the randomly generated tower/unit selections is uniform across all players. e.g., the game pregenerates all of the towers for all three rerolls and every player in the game receives the same roster to choose from. This eliminates some of the random elements of selection by ensuring an equal playing field amongst Masterminds.

    B. Allow players to create their own squads/legions pre-game and bring that template into the game.

    C. Remove Mastermind and instead allow players to pick a primary legion and then generate a single mastermind roster for all players, allowing them to select 1 or 2 towers to complement their current legion choice. E.g, I select Mech, then I can select from a mastermind roll (everyone receives the same mastermind roster) and can select a single or two towers (single probably best) to add to my towers. Or perhaps you can "trade" some of your faction towers for the mastermind selections. The mastermind roster would be visible before the legion choice to ensure that players can select their legion in mind with what is available in the "mastermind" pool.

    I can think up a few other ideas, but I believe these two are the best;
    A. is the closest thing you'll get to a balanced mastermind (although you don't avoid the dice rolls, which are not conducive to competitive games) or
    B. which is the most logical implementation of Mastermind but would render the legions obsolete (however, would be the de facto choice for a competitive game as it allows players to showcase their skill in selecting their builds and creating strategies deterministically.)
    C. Would be an interesting compromise as it is completely fair (the mastermind pool is generated once for all players and is visible at the start of the game) and balanced (you select the legion to start with and either gain a single (or more) tower or you can instead make it so that players have to "trade" their towers for towers from the mastermind pool.

    2. Competitive games afford players more control

    Another issue in Legion TD is AI targeting. At times, it seems random and unpredictable and it can be a great deal of frustration watching one's units exercise poor decision making in targeting enemies. While I know that indirect control of one's units is a hallmark and part of the core experience in Legion TD, I do believe that some changes should take place to make this more fit for competitive play. Furthermore, the addition of this kind of control will increase the skill depth in the game by improving its strategic elements.

    There are two good possible implementations

    A. Allow direct control of a single unit per wave.

    This would be the simplest way to create some level of control. I do not mean control of movement as this would result in cheesy tactics such as kiting or creep blocking. However, being able to select a unit's target or control when a creep uses its spell and the target of the spell can make a significant difference on the outcome of a wave. This while an easy implementation, could defeat the spirit of Legion TD, which rewards players on strategic, rather than, reactionary play.

    B. Allow the player to determine target priority per either unit or via select (special) unit in-between waves.

    Give the player the ability to set target priorities via basic selections such as, "Target Low Health", "Target High Health", "Target Mercenary", "Target Non-Mercenary", "Target Group". This alone would be a massive QoL improvement over the current targeting system. I can see some concerns rising up over this as selecting "target mercenary" may seem like the no-brainer choice, but the opposing team can punish that by sending high health mercenaries or backline mercs.

    I understand that Legion TD has a storied history and that these are facets of the game that have been around since WC3, but tradition is no reason not to advance a game that has the ambitions to become competitive. Randomness has no place in a competitive game; games should be determined solely by skill. I believe that this is a major hurdle that Legion TD 2 has to overcome in order to be taken more seriously by players and the world at large.

    I have more suggestions, but these two are the ones that most frequently cross my mind when I play.

    Thanks for listening!

    Edit: I've updated the post a few times to clarify a few things or to update suggestions.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2018
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  2. foliesseer

    foliesseer Member

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    People don't want to play Legions since they are boring. People don't want to play Legions because you can spend 2-10 hours in a custom game, make a build and climb with it. Actually, if I would have my 1100 elo friend play @Roshkatul Mech build right now I'm pretty sure he would climb to 1500, and if I teach him how to send he would climb to 1700. Playing Legions takes way less skill than playing Mastermind, since in MM you need to know how to position units, how aggro works, what holds, when you can greed, et cetera. Besides that, you have "guarantees" in your Mastermind roll, so the playing field is already evened out by a fair amount. And as you can see on the ladder and the tournament that we just had today, skilled players can win consistently because of their skill, and not on their "dice roll".

    So MM is good for the game because it requires a lot of skill and knowledge to play it and most people think it's not fun to play Legions. I can give you even more reasons why Mastermind is good for the game but it is useless since they don't have anything to do with your first point.
    Lets say I have a Mudman on wave 2. Wave 2 has 12 Wales. So Wale #1 hits my Mudman, then Wale #2, etc. That's also the order the units get focused. The towers focus the monsters that are attacking them in the order that the monsters started attacking them.

    Ranged units also follow this, but since they don't take damage most of the time they focus the monsters that have taken damage. And if there's no damaged monsters, it will focus the monster that is closest by. So it's definitely not *that* random, since the only random factor here is pathing-- which is actually quite consistent!

    I do however support advanced targeting (like having my Zeus focus down only lane creeps and my Disciple focus down the mercenaries), however the entire game is balanced around not being able to do this. This is why Safety Moles spawn all the way in the back, so they don't get focused. So I don't see this working out.
     
  3. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    Firstly, thank you for being a fan of Legion TD for so long. I appreciate your thoughtful feedback. I can't respond to every point individually, but I'll share my thoughts:
    • I agree pathing/targeting can be improved. It's not perfect, but it's better than it was last month and significantly better than it was before that. It's constantly improving. If you ever experience pathing/target issues, please record video and let us know here.
    • I don't think allowing direct control of units makes sense for Legion TD 2. Part of the appeal of the game is that the battle happens automatically. You said it yourself: controlling units isn't in the spirit of Legion TD 2, which rewards players for strategic decisions, not twitch mechanics.
    • I think allowing players to change target priority is interesting, but the extra depth isn't worth the complexity (at least right now). Legion TD 2 is already a really deep game and pretty hard to learn/inaccessible to a lot of players. If we want to the game to grow, we have to keep the game streamlined and then introduce more complex mechanics as the player base matures. I also think a lot of the desire for changing target priority could just be accomplished by improved pathing/targeting.
    • Your suggestion A is cool and sounds like it could be an alternate game mode.
    This is the only thing I fundamentally disagree with. Every game has some randomness, even chess (black vs. white). I think randomness can definitely be part of a competitive game and can even make it more strategic, interesting, and replayable. Poker is a great example. Mastermind in Legion TD 2 allows players to experience an effectively limitless number of unique combinations and situations that wouldn't exist without some randomness. Challenging yourself in a new situation is one of the primary skills of the game and one reason Legion TD 2 is so fun.
     
  4. Avengedbegneva

    Avengedbegneva Member

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    I appreciate the response.

    I put up the suggestions with no real expectation of implementation, but simply to voice my thoughts.

    That being said, I will have to refute your disagreement by stating that randomness does not exist. Everything is deterministic. Randomness does not truly exist. Chess does not have any randomness at all since all pieces on the board and their movements are determined by the players. An intentional decision or action cannot be random by nature since there is an orchestrator at play. (When discussing black vs white, you must be referring to a coin toss. This isn't actually a random event as a coin toss is subject to the properties of physics, but it is indeterminable by human standards.)

    Even in poker, randomness does not truly exist as a 52-card deck in poker has a finite number of combinations. The lack of randomness is exactly why card counting became and is a major issue in gambling venues across the world. Heck, technically speaking, card counting isn't even cheating since players are actively using mathematics and statistics in order to determine likely hands. That is strategy, but no venue wants to lose money so it is discouraged and penalized actively.

    Point in case is this; there are very few, if any, examples of randomness occurring in any modern competitive eSports game.

    I'll cite a few games:

    Counter-Strike GO: Spray patterns are not random, they are essentially the same for most weapons. There is some exception and standard deviation for unusual use for some weapons (no-scope awp, AK has some variance) but the spray pattern is for the most part consistent. Pro players learn spray patterns and master them for competitive play.

    League of Legends: Literally engineered from the start to be devoid of the massive repetoir of random proccing passive abilities present in Dota. That is a major point of contention between Icefrog and the Guinsoo and his part of the staff and why the two parted ways eventually. It's more complex but point in case is that the game does not feature random dice rolls and even characters that had featured some (old Twisted Fate passive) were reworked or removed. There are still a few leftovers from that era, but they are rarely used and are generally slated for rework or removal.

    Dota: I stated some examples before, but Dota continues its trend of reworking heroes and changing these abilities. Typically they are removed or conformed to its pseudorandom number generator.

    Overwatch: There are some accuracy penalties for some weapons, but within their effective range, tend to be spot on. Other than that, there are no abilities with random properties.

    The one exception to the above is card games; hearthstone, gwent, ES Legends, etc. By nature, card games have a sort of random element from the card draw, but even then, as stated with poker, in a finite deck you can begin to determine what you will or will not draw.

    I understand why Mastermind is part of the game; it is fun and exciting to get different combinations every game because Legions quickly become stale. That is an issue that should be considered going forward. But I think there's some trade off here in prioritizing short terms gains for long term growth. The examples I gave are simply that; examples. I'm just pointing out the greater issue Legion TD 2 will face in the future if it wants to be accepted by the community at large as a serious eSport.

    I have an extremely difficult time seeing this game being taken seriously if in the future two high level professionals face off in a major tournament, both choose mastermind, and one ends up with a non-synergistic combination and the other ends up with a near perfect hand. Given equal skill levels, we know who is significantly more likely to win and which is significantly more likely to lose.

    All I'm saying is that it is point for discussion and thought; Legion TD from back in the Wc3 days is great. But it shouldn't be held back by a design that is over a decade old. Transcendence led League of Legends to greatness. It can do the same for Legion TD 2.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2018
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  5. foliesseer

    foliesseer Member

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    Pretty sure he read your sentence as "Competitive games should avoid the use of dice rolls for determining outcomes.", while you said that they are trying to avoid randomness. It's pretty easy to spot that he misread there and that he wasn't trying to deny that games like chess are avoiding randomness.
    Ok, let me give you a few options:
    1. Remove Mastermind from the ranked queue
    • Increases repetitiveness of games, decreasing fun.
    • Reduces skill drastically (you can just make a Legion build in a custom game), further decreasing fun.
    • Reduces RNG drastically, making the game more consistent.
    2. Give everyone the same MM roll
    • Doesn't affect repetitiveness all that much.
    • Reduces skill by a fair amount (no scouting/hiding units)
    • Reduces RNG by an okay-ish amount (1 dice roll instead of 4), but that doesn't really matter all that much since you are still playing a MM roll.
    3. Make your own Mastermind mix
    • Not even going to bother, you are basically making a Legion but you pick all the broken combos as well. And if you exclude the broken combos then you are removing fun as well, so yeah.
    4. Have people pick a Legion + Mastermind (MM roll per player/for everyone the same, doesn't matter), and choose which one they will play
    • People would still play Mastermind because it's more fun and requires more skill, you achieve nothing with this.
    5. Keep it as is
    • It's not repetitive and it's fun playing with a different combination of fighters each game.
    • Requires a very high amount of skill to play well, but a medium amount of skill to get started with (most of the time, people win because they are skilled and not because they spend 2-10 hours in a custom game making a build for their Legion. Makes it feel fair and is more fun.)
    • RNG is still a big factor, however it is managed by stuff like attack priorities, Mastermind roll guarantees or guaranteed spawning patterns.
    I don't understand how games like Hearthstone and Gwent are allowed to be competitive but LTD2 doesn't. This game literally thrives because it's fun to play with random rolls. Somehow it's acceptable to call Hearthstone a competitive e-sports game while I could enter a tournament, play cards like Mind Control Tech which literally can take a 1/1 minion or a 12/12 minion by random chance, which again literally let me win by randomness alone. Of course, your opponent chose to play into your Mind Control Tech (having 4 minions on his side on the board), and he chose to take that risk of losing his 12/12, but you can't refute the fact that it is still a dice roll.
    However, a game where you get a "random" composition of 10/30 fighters (which isn't all that random because you have guarantees), where the developers thrive for consistent AI behavior (which we already have to an extent with spawn positioning, pathing and aggro) and that mostly relies on the players individual skill level is not a game that people would play competitively...? I would heavily disagree with that logic. I think as long as Mastermind rewards skillful play and minimizes winning because of RNG, there should be no problem.
     
  6. Avengedbegneva

    Avengedbegneva Member

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    I'll answer your points one by one.

    But before I address them, card games are a genre apart by their nature. Comparing them to Legion TD is pointless, hence why they were only a special clause in my post. Furthermore, there is no active or real time component in most card games, further rendering any more comparison moot. And for the record, I don't think that they're purely skill based because any significant element of random generation in a game is a detriment toward a truly competitive platform. Like first-turn kill combos in Hearthstone. Legion TD is not to that extreme but still retains an issue.

    1. Remove Mastermind from the ranked queue
    • Increases repetitiveness of games, decreasing fun.
    • Reduces skill drastically (you can just make a Legion build in a custom game), further decreasing fun.
    • Reduces RNG drastically, making the game more consistent.
    This point is entirely predicated on how fun the game is to play. Fun is the core reason to play most games, but focusing on immediate enjoyment to the detriment of the skill gap will kill most games in the long run. If removing MM from the game cripples it, then there's a problem with game design and it needs to be addressed. Legions should not be relegated to an introduction to the game.

    2. Give everyone the same MM roll
    • Doesn't affect repetitiveness all that much.
    • Reduces skill by a fair amount (no scouting/hiding units)
    • Reduces RNG by an okay-ish amount (1 dice roll instead of 4), but that doesn't really matter all that much since you are still playing a MM roll.
    It reduces RNG significantly since everyone now has the same roll. There's no longer any deviation between MM players. If everyone were to play a game and choose only Mastermind, you would have a perfectly balanced game. It would be 99% skill based (a hyperbole, since there would still be a deviation as a result of whimsical unit targeting). And I would have to disagree also on scouting/hiding units, since there are always more units in a Mastermind Roster than you can recruit. If obfuscation is the goal, increase the number of recruitable units to further create mystique.

    3. Make your own Mastermind mix
    • Not even going to bother, you are basically making a Legion but you pick all the broken combos as well. And if you exclude the broken combos then you are removing fun as well, so yeah.
    Already addressed that this would make legions obsolete.

    4. Have people pick a Legion + Mastermind (MM roll per player/for everyone the same, doesn't matter), and choose which one they will play
    • People would still play Mastermind because it's more fun and requires more skill, you achieve nothing with this.
    This is a redesign of Mastermind/Legions in general. You misunderstood my original context. There is no "Mastermind" in this particular redesign. Everyone selects 1. Faction, 2. X number of units from the MM Central Pool are traded for units from the Legion selected. This is a hybrid of both worlds that eliminates random dice rolls, makes the pool uniform across all players, and then allows you to replace X number of units from your legion choice with X number from the currently rolled MM Roster. In this way, a player's skill determines how excellent his final build loadout is, not RNG. (Note that the MM Roster is visible from the start, so that you can factor that into which legion you choose to start with.)

    5. Keep it as is
    • It's not repetitive and it's fun playing with a different combination of fighters each game.
    • Requires a very high amount of skill to play well, but a medium amount of skill to get started with (most of the time, people win because they are skilled and not because they spend 2-10 hours in a custom game making a build for their Legion. Makes it feel fair and is more fun.)
    • RNG is still a big factor, however it is managed by stuff like attack priorities, Mastermind roll guarantees or guaranteed spawning patterns.
    This is not managing RNG at all nor addressing the current situation in which a few rolls at the start of the game can permanently impair you or exalt you for the rest of the game. It's a red herring and doesn't acknowledge the issue at all in a competitive arena.

    Most of these things boil down to the level of enjoyment that a player has playing the game and I'll grant you that it is an important facet of any game. But one should not compromise the importance of skill in a competitive game in order to reach that level of fun. Rather, they should go hand in hand. Be fun while also being entirely skill centric. Much like League for instance, has low skill-cap champions that are still very relevant in the professional level meta.

    I won't say anything more regarding this subject; I understand that the player population of this game feel strongly about this as many are old time players of the original Legion TD or those who have played Squadron TD. But these are not valid arguments for a game that is seemingly attempting to become a real competitive e-sport. If that is not the intended goal of the developers of this game, then I've made this post in error and RNG is fully welcome in a game that is a purely casual experience. If that is not the case, then more energy and time should be devoted into contemplating a design that marries both fun and skill without resorting to gambling in order to achieve that.

    PS: To address your previous concerns regarding targeting mercs such as those in the backlines, the simple solution is to allow advanced targeting to only apply to targets in the immediate attack range of the unit. This would prevent units from going out of their way to kill backline creeps and make units such as deep coilers obsolete.
     
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  7. foliesseer

    foliesseer Member

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    Yeah, I did misunderstand so my bad. I think this could be experimented with since this does provide a good alternative to MM with a more streamlined gameplay.

    Your other points still don't make any sense
    1. The focus is on enjoyment in the long run? That's the entire point of Mastermind, so you don't get tired of this game.
    2. The negative side effects of the removal of MM is a design problem? I mean, the negative side effect from removing Mastermind is that people no longer have fun playing the game. I think there is really a mistake made if they would remove MM, or at least if they don't have anything to replace it with.
    I don't know, the argument is just flawed. You are basically saying that if the 'fun and replayability factor' gets removed from the game and it "cripples" the game, that it is a design problem. Since removing MM isn't the problem, it's about removing a system that keeps the playerbase interested in the game. And of course, if you replace that system instead of remove it then it could be fine but you are talking about removing it, which makes no sense.
    1. That would mean you need 2 units to pick from each tier, since you are pretty much forced to pick at least one T1 and one T2, which leads to increasing the amount of towers you can pick from which...
    2. ...Causes repetitiveness. Being able to pick from, lets say, 15/30 units makes MM rolls quite repetitive. Imagine people always picking Butcher with Wileshroom or Banana Haven. With a bigger pool, chances of this combo appearing increases a lot. And since it's a strong combo (which it is supposed to be, btw), people will pick it over and over again. So it wouldn't really work out with our current MM setup.
    ...What.
    1. Skill is already the defining factor in Legion. A 2000 elo player with a bad roll can beat another 2000 elo player with a good roll. Skill becomes less of a factor when you reach elo's like 1000-1400, however in an actual high-elo environment the players individual skill level matters a lot.
    I'm not saying that all games are decided by pure skill, some games take less skill because you got an insanely good roll and your opponent got an insanely bad roll. However, then we might compare it again to games like Hearthstone where you got a good draw and your opponent got a bad draw. Or even League, where you crit three times out of ten attacks while you had 60% crit chance. But even in these games, skill is a deciding factor if you win or lose. And the same applies for Legion.
    2. Low skill-cap champions like Yi, Nunu or Shyvana don't see any play in high elo unless the player is a one-trick, the champion is overbuffed or the meta shifts in their favor. The meta is always dominated by medium skill-cap, low skill-floor champions like Talon or Evelynn: champions that are very easy to pick up but hard to make work 100% efficiently. The only current exceptions are Annie, Kayle and Veigar, which are all walking balls of stats and take little skill to learn or master.
    Again, explain to me how Hearthstone is an e-sport but LTD2 can't be :p.
    Just writing this topic and especially when reading this part makes me wonder how much you actually played this game and what elo you are. You know that Safety Mole still walks in range of, you know, melee range? Or Pack Leader. And not only that, ranged units exist. This did not solve this issue at all. It would literally make certain mercenaries unable to exist unless they have 400 range and their effect is reduced by 33%, which at that point makes these units not worth sending anymore.

    I don't think it's worth replying to this topic anymore. I'm going to compare it with Hearthstone, which I would say that I am a fairly decent Hearthstone player: In both Hearthstone and Legion TD 2, I can consistently climb to the top of the ladder. In HS, I can always get to rank ~5, which is pretty hard for me personally but I can do it consistently. And in Legion, I can consistently be around ~1800 elo. Sure, sometimes I drop 100 elo below and sometimes I'm 100 elo above, depending on how I am playing. But that doesn't really matter I think. The point is that my draws in Hearthstone and my rolls in Legion don't define my games in most cases, but my skill does. And yes, we can further improve on that by trying stuff out with hybrid picks (Legion + MM mixed and everyone gets the same roll), but at the end it still needs to be at least just as fun as the current system. And if you have games like Hearthstone, where RNG is quite a big factor (10-20%, depending on the decks I play), I think it's fine if I decided 90% of my games with skill and 10% on my roll. Even the tournament that was hosted yesterday shows that good players will consistently win and come out on top, so I really don't see any problem with the RNG how it is now.
     
  8. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

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    If this is our starting point for conversion, it's going to be hard to reach common ground. Even if nothing is truly random, given that we aren't omniscient gods, plenty of things are effectively random to us. I think we all know what I mean when I say "randomness."
    Legion TD 2 has randomness, just like Hearthstone and poker have randomness. Hearthstone and poker are both competitive games - people make livings off of playing them professionally, so I think we can agree those games are competitive. There's nothing intrinsically special about those games just because they are card games. You can imagine Legion TD 2 as a card game in which you get 10 random cards and have to pick 6.
    I think you may be confusing poker and blackjack. There's no such thing as counting cards in poker - the deck is shuffled after every hand.

    The existence of finite combinations is not related to whether or not a game has randomness. Legion TD 2 Mastermind rolls also have a finite number of combinations (it's in the hundreds of thousands).

    Mastermind isn't a decade old - it's around 9 months old. If you recall from Legion TD, you got random towers in very different ways ("hybird" and "prophet"), and we changed and modernized things for Legion TD 2. I agree with you - we shouldn't stick with an old design just because it existed before. We aren't afraid of ditching outdated designs and changing the game for the better. I believe we've made marked improvements over the original mod, while still maintaining its spirit and core gameplay.

    Playing under random conditions is the skill of the game.

    ---

    Our goal, first-and-foremost, is to have a fun, highly replayable game. We also believe Legion TD 2 is competitive and could be played seriously as an esport, but it's not our highest priority right now.

    I believe we're approaching this from very different angles, but I still appreciate your perspective and the discussion. And again, I am happy and honored you've been a fan of Legion TD for so long. I know you want what's best for the game, as does everyone here!
     
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  9. Roshkatul

    Roshkatul Member

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    Removing Mastermind would only bring more harm than good.

    As you refuse to compare Legion TD with hearthstone/poker (card games), I refuse to compare Legion TD with MobAs and shooters, as they are 2 completely different genres.
    Having mastermind removed, it would be like playing DotA with only 5 heroes available for everyone (as there are only 5 legions), and the game would require 50+ legions to keep the player base entertained. But even then, hardcore players would eventually get bored of it.

    1. I already stated why removing mastermind would be terrible. The game won't ever have enough variety with so few legions, and won't ever have, considering that from a graphical stand-point, designing a whole new legion takes as much time as designing 4-5 heroes. I'm sure that at least half of the player base would quit if mastermind will get removed, and more players would stop logging into this game daily.
    Also, I don't see how removing mastermind would increase the competitiveness, considering that it takes between 3 hours (to master) and 10 hours to (perfect) a legion, while you constantly keep learning new things about mastermind even hundreds of hours into the game.

    2. Making mastermind similar to legion spell (same rolls across the board) would once again be really bad. Hiding towers would become obsolete. You would completely remove the viability of certain waves thorough a game.
    If my opponent looks terrible on 8, I won't even be able to consider sending on 8, because the starting 10 towers contained a tower which completely demolishes 8 on it's own (banana bunk).
    If my opponent looks bad on 10, I won't be able to send on 10, because the starting roll contained rangers which demolish wave 10.
    And that would apply to every player in-game.
    Some waves would just become obsolete for that game for all of the 4 players, and the skill of hiding towers would disappear completely. And I don't think that removing certain aspects of the game which require skill is increasing the competitiveness of the game.

    3. Allowing players to select a legion +1/2 towers would make the game a complete hell to balance, close to impossible. There will always be that ONE strong build which everyone will play if they want to win, which once again, doesn't increase the competitiveness of the game.

    4. Allowing the player to select a priority for their targeting. That already happens in-game, as units have hidden targeting. They target units which attacked them first, and ranged units always target the lowest HP units in range. And that's completely fine.
    If you had an option to always target mercenaries first, you would once again have to balance units around that.
    The ultimate counter to zeus is safety mole. If you had an option to always target the mercenaries at the beginning of the wave, you would just remove the counter to that unit.
    The ultimate counter to disciple/starcaller spam is kraken. If you know that your opponent can afford a kraken, just make them so they won't ever target mercenaries, since kraken deals like no damage against starcallers, and most of the late-game damage mercenaries are ranged anyway.

    You would just completely remove the counters for some units, aura mercenaries would become useless, which is again really bad.

    5. Control one unit during the wave. Now this is pretty much stupid as well. All the reasons pointed out at "4." apply. Since ranged units always target low hp units, you can just use the controlled unit to make the wave focus the aura mercenaries.
    + do you actually feel like you have enough time to control a unit during the beginning of the wave? If that's so, I think you are not scouting your 2 opponents properly, you are not adding up their values, you are not estimating their worker counts and your are not analyzing the flaws in their positioning to make a proper call.

    I'm sorry, but you just can't really give an opinion of the competitive aspect of the game, if you didn't get to play the game competitive yet. Yes, there's some RNG involved, but that still does not change the fact that the players who have always been on top of the ladder, are still up there, and it almost seems like they have always been up there. (For example Ashton Butcher was one of the top players, took like a 6 month break, and it took him like 1 month to get back to the top of the ladder and win tournaments. If the game was so RNG heavy as you make it sound, he would still be stuck in elo hell because of his mastermind rolls).
    The only periods of time when people who did not belong at the top of the ladder got there and heavily dropped soon after, were the patches where Legion play was predominant and pretty much no one played mastermind.

    Anyway, those suggestions were nicely formulated and I appreciate you for that. I'm looking forward to face you off at the top of the ladder.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
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