Discussion in 'Strategy Guides' started by Zgeembo, Oct 5, 2017.
Doppelganger destroys centaur like no other.
So usually people will send on 4, so when you see you are not getting any sends on 5. You already know, they will either skip for 6 or go centaur on 8/9. So here is what you do, after wave 4 you probably have a gargoyle, butcher, nightmare and a dark mage. So after wave 5 is done, you build a green devil, expecting them to send on6 maybe. If they didnt send on 6, you know they will go for 8/9. So now you clear 6, you dont build anything here. You save all the gold. So pprobably at this point you have 160ish gold. Then you clear wave 7 ( the build clear 7 pretty safe). After 7 you should be able to to upgrade your Nightmare into Doppelganger. This is holding cent on 8 quite effectively. If they decide to go 9, just upgrade your butcher into head chef, or get some more Green Devil/Bone Crushers. The doppelganger will destroy the centaur.
EDIT: you push a worker after 4 obviously, or even on 3 so you are on 3 workers
Just tried forsaken a bit, and i have to say I don´t like it^^
I like playing till lategame (20/21) and I need to have shittons of overvalue to be ablet o hold the turtle or the legionlord waves
early/mid works ok :/
I have just updated the guide, if you need me to upload Photos of positioning, feel free to comment.
Yes, please ;-)
I went and did some testing... 6 seems to be the problem? I tried different positioning with darkmage+nm+butcher+2gargoyles and brute or lizard+snail gave me headaches (could hold lizard+snail but also leak 3)
Yeah, if you notice the save you need to adjust the build. I usually go DM + NM + butcher + 2 gargoyle + 1 bone warrior, this hold quite nice unless you get a brute. But yeah if you see, that you didnt get sends on 5. Dont push worker, get a gateguard and you are fine on wave 6.
Edit: I tested the build, I gold wave 6 4times of the tested 4 if I get send a lizard + snail.
@Konsaril I have posted the Photos in the guide, tell me if it is too much confusing, I will try to improwe it then .
Ofc I build extra if I notice a save but 75 myth is not impossible/rare even if you get 50 myth on 5=) Thx for pictures though.
@Zgeembo I will try it out Later ;-) But Thanks!
NM + DM leaks to fiend, and super big vs fiend + snail or brute. Also if you get 3 workers after 3 and are not getting enough gold from either enemy leaks or your lane opponent sending you will not get the butcher for 5, leaving you with a rather awkward buildpath. I personally find the build to be more flexible going for 2 Gargs instead of upping the BW to DM on 3 (unless you got sends on 1/2).
1 NM + 1 DM + 2 Gargs + Butcher holds 7 vs the likes of a 50 myth send, sometimes even 75. 3 Gargs hold 75 myth reliably and even a mole, sometimes a dino. So unless your opponent is saving I usually get a worker instead of Green Devil here and upgrade that on 8 instead.
Other than that pretty solid guide, great for Forsaken starters. GJ.
You either have a completly different positioning than me, or you're very unlucky. I usually only leak 6 to 75 myth if I go super greedy (1 garg).
Positioning=) I tested several times with Zgeembos placement and held fiend every time on 3.
Mby. It held most of the time.
With just 1 NM 1 DM? Hmm. Did you snipe the Fiend? Thats like the only chance I see. If not I usually saw people leaking at least 2-3 creeps + Fiend, and sometimes they leaked very big (if the Fiend goes on the NM without the NM attacking it back).
Most people (almost everyone I've seen) build dm behind nightmare=p And no, it got killed about halfway thrue.
@ithion I get bruted a lot on 6, I pretty much hold it always now unless i get greedy, and try to hold it with no butcher so I can push another worker.
@Akitos yeah I do hold any 50 mythium send on wave 3 with only DM and NM. If you didnt get any sends on wave 1/2 and enemy is not overbuilding ofc you will build a gargoyle for wave 3 so that you dont leak to the brute. Its one of reasons I said this build is not to be followed strictly, its marely a guide on what type of build you should have for specific waves in an average game.
I also do agree on your comment how to hold wave 7, I tryed it my self but for the sake of keeping the guide not too complex I decided to recommend the green devil variante, as it is much safer.
just a quick note from me:
adding a Gateguard to 11 holds bigger tank sends, like dino + 2snakes.
7 out of 10 games i did leak on 11 before. Just with dino+snake send (which is a common send if they aren't saving and atleast 1 guy leaks)
I did some other slight adjutments, but in general i really really did enjoy ur guide.
Thanks alot for creating it. I hope u keep updating it, or maybe even write other guides aswell ^^ <3
got crushed in wave 19 with about 6k value with this build, they wasnt even sending that much :/
Been testing the build for a few hours, pretty fun so far. Especially when you mix it up
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